V-spec Version Discussion And Speculation

[sh@un]

btw isnt the gtr gear change time 0 sec when you change to the preselected gear? surely thats the whole point.

the drivetrain engineer has said it only takes 20 milliseconds between pulling the paddle and the next gear receiving drive from the engine. with a Ferrari F1 shift, the 60 millisecond time is just the time it takes to synchronize the next gear

About 40% of ferrari owners still opt for the H pattern

and save, what, $25-30,000?

the difference there, is that the Ferrari is initially designed with a conventional manual- where the R35 (as far as we know) wasn't

With the GTR using wet clutches, the life expectency should be higher than the F1 type clutches that get absolutely trashed during parking, and also by people driving them like an auto, holding the car stationary on hills using the transmission rather than the brakes.

[t01-100]

typical rx7 driver.

how will the carbon brakes work from cold on say, a targa stage, stuart?

btw isnt the gtr gear change time 0 sec when you change to the preselected gear? surely thats the whole point.

i might have owned the rx7 for a couple of years now, but i've only driven it twice!... but maybe thats typical of a rotary owner!

based on my experience with the current generation of carbon ceramic brakes on porsches they have no drama running well from stone cold... five or so years ago they weren't great and i had an exciting experience coming down my drive way in a borrowed car one morning and there was simply no friction point!

stuff like that 997 turbo we had during targa this year was magic from the get go though. the only disadvantage in them is the reduced pedal feel they provide, but would be an easy 30kg weight saving on the new GTR.

[t01-100]

stuff like that 997 turbo we had during targa this year was magic from the get go though.

didn't see times, but pretty sure we had the r35's measure over mt black this year too!

[R338OY]

the difference there, is that the Ferrari is initially designed with a conventional manual- where the R35 (as far as we know) wasn't

On that note, i wonder who will be the first nutcase to convert the R35 to full manual?

[Roy]

Well thinking out loud, i doubt Nissan would bin the DSG box on the track variants. Its a selling point for the car so will stay.

However, its not hard to think of reasons to bin it for a traditional manual gearbox. The first being weight. What does all the electronids/hydraulics etc do for the overall weight? Im guessing the DCT is heavier, technology usually is.

Secondly, talk out of Japan is that the gearboxes are wearing quickly on the development cars. So either Nissan have to look at the durability of the gearbox if it is really going to be considered the Nissan equiv to a GT3 / GT3 RS. Otherwise the annual servicing cost will kill the enthusiasm to track them.

Lastly, as previously stated, the gearboxes are more complicated and given the extra wear and tear on the cars at the track, it will call into question even more the dependence on sensors etc etc. Also the launcing of the car will be far more frequent in a motorsport inspired version of the car and again...DCT and launch control are damn consistant for launching times...but $$$$ Ok they are far more durable then the automated manuals like in the F430 etc, but all manuals have clutches and wear with frequent launches. The availability of clutch compounds/designs and packaging, (servicing - replacement for production racing) are all more difficult with a DCT box. A more traditional gearbox will help with long term durability, a good thing if Nissan are looking at Group N type endurance racing...something i expect they are.

Re the Fezz F430 gearbox, they claim 60ms but that is a marketing number and there is a catch in there somewhere about it being the average or something, its really more like 100ms.

So, all weighed up i would expect Nissan to keep the DCT. Though i would not be surprised if they kept it for the road model only. I know if i was racing one i think i would prefer a normal manual

[sh@un]

On that note, i wonder who will be the first nutcase to convert the R35 to full manual?

what benefit you could possibly get from the massive effort involved escapes me completely... if any even exists

[Whiplash]

i might have owned the rx7 for a couple of years now, but i've only driven it twice!... but maybe thats typical of a rotary owner!

based on my experience with the current generation of carbon ceramic brakes on porsches they have no drama running well from stone cold... five or so years ago they weren't great and i had an exciting experience coming down my drive way in a borrowed car one morning and there was simply no friction point!

stuff like that 997 turbo we had during targa this year was magic from the get go though. the only disadvantage in them is the reduced pedal feel they provide, but would be an easy 30kg weight saving on the new GTR.

we found on the 430 on track they came up to temperature pretty quickly. over the 20 lap races they didn't have any brake fade through out the races either.

the car is now running steel brakes as the cost of replacing them every 2 rounds was getting insane

[Roy]

But isnt the main advantage of carbon brakes the weight saving, not any improvement in brake fade/resistance? Well that is what i have always read in tech mags etc, rather then Wheels/Motor etc

Hell Zanardi was the black sheep running steel brakes at Williams as he hated the feel of the carbon brakes. There was no direct difference in braking force or fade resistance, there was however the head fark for Williams to set the car up with all that extra weight at the end of the suspension arms

[t01-100]

media hype aside weight would be the primary motivation yeah... plus all the top euros have them so keeping up with the jones' maybe

[NISMO]

An update from US Road and Track mag.

Can't decide if the pic is a chop, but man it looks nice.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?se...article_id=6754

[Rezz]

^^^ Yep that's an older 'chop from Best Car from February. They've since semi-retracted the bit they said about the front bumper having the two intakes on either side, it's 50/50 at the moment whether the Spec V (that's what they're calling it apparently) will actually have them. Having said that it seems they're still testing a lot of different (small) things like a NACA duct here, carbon or titanium bit there... they have to justify the expected 13,000,000 yen price somehow.

[NISMO]

^^^ Yep that's an older 'chop from Best Car from February. They've since semi-retracted the bit they said about the front bumper having the two intakes on either side, it's 50/50 at the moment whether the Spec V (that's what they're calling it apparently) will actually have them. Having said that it seems they're still testing a lot of different (small) things like a NACA duct here, carbon or titanium bit there... they have to justify the expected 13,000,000 yen price somehow.

Thanks Rezz,

What about some of the other things they're saying on HP and Weight. Have you heard any different?

Although carbon doors would be great, not sure how many cashed up old dudes would go for them if they're a different colour to the body.

[Smitizen]

7 min 25 sec is obscene.

Can someone dig up some info on the testing times???

[Rezz]

NISMO: Ah not really anything different, just 550ps and 1590kg for the 'Spec V', but they did say something about an "over boost function" similar to what Porsche offer on the GT2. This is also one of the things which is 50/50... so time will tell.

Smitizen: Apparently the Nissan development team were gunning for 7min 20sec, which due to damp parts of the track didn't materialize. We'll have to wait and see when they return sometime this month. 7min 25sec was hand timed though by an onlooker so the actual time might be different, but def in the sub-30sec bracket.

[chris_r31]

a person that builds race cars in melb, just bought a 35gtr, an will be landing in aus in about 4weeks or so, 78,ooo aus,

i cant w8 till we do the parking thing in lygon an have a pizza infront of the 35..

[JieLine]

7 mins 25 secs isnt so crazy after finding out that the "base spec" just did 7 mins 29 secs!!!

Nissan Europe News

Edited May 1, 2008 by JieLine

[Beer Baron]

I would not get too excited about the Spec V guys. everyone seems to think it's going to be a wild beast with 100 more hp, and hundreds of kilos lighter with carbon everything and a conventional manual gearbox.

look to the past. V Spec versions have typically contained mild changes and with a car like this anything they do will be fairly subtle too. My predictions:

different colour options (possibly trim options too)

different wheels

different suspension parts and set-up

differen brakes or at least different pads

lighter curb weight but not by very much I'd say less than 100kg lower weight than standard

possibly more agressive engine mapping and raised boost to give around 50ps more power

other small detail changes (a bit of carbon or titanium here and there, some decals/badges etc)

possibly a differen exhaust (titanium would be nice)

what definitely WON'T happen:

they will not drop the DSG for Spec V models. no way, no how. it is what makes the car so fast and so special, and a Spec V would need about 200hp more than the standard car just to keep up. no way will they make a new more expensive version that is slower than the base model.

they will not find some magical weight saving netting them 350kg off the standard model. it's impossible

they will not have a wild power increase. certainly not the 800hp some people are quoting. I would say any power increase will not be more than 100hp tops.

I am actually surprised people are so excited by the spec V. sure it will be nice, but I really don't think it will be anything that much more special than the regular R35 GTR.

[sewid]

You forgot that it has two rocket engines on the back to assist with launches.

[SS8_Gohan]

well we already know the ceramic brakes are almost certainly a go

but we also know that the R35 V-Spec is not going to follow the previously models as closely, in that the jump between GTR and GTR V-Spec will be A LOT bigger, in price and performance. I can't remember which of the Nissan eng. was quoted as saying, but he said there would be a fair price premium and realistically be a track only car. So i don't think we are going to see a slightly tricked out base GTR, i think we are going to see something pretty monstrous, easily over $200K for us Aussies... but a GT3 starts at $260K, GT3 RS around $305K, so again, should be a fair bit cheaper than the direct competition

[Sydneykid]

Well thinking out loud, i doubt Nissan would bin the DSG box on the track variants. Its a selling point for the car so will stay.

I agree, plus it's also technically superior and real world superior

However, its not hard to think of reasons to bin it for a traditional manual gearbox. The first being weight. What does all the electronids/hydraulics etc do for the overall weight? Im guessing the DCT is heavier, technology usually is.

Since the gearbox is at the rear the linkages required to give decent shfter accuracy and feel may well weigh more than a solenoid or two and a few wires.

Secondly, talk out of Japan is that the gearboxes are wearing quickly on the development cars. So either Nissan have to look at the durability of the gearbox if it is really going to be considered the Nissan equiv to a GT3 / GT3 RS. Otherwise the annual servicing cost will kill the enthusiasm to track them.

Gearbox wear? In my experience a non sequential gearbox wears out much faster than the same sized sequential gearbox. It's the main reason why V8Supercars went to sequential gearboxes from this year, to save on maintenance costs, 2 rebuilds a year instead of 4.

Clutch wear? That would seem more logical, especially if dumb asses are driving them like they had a torque converter.

Lastly, as previously stated, the gearboxes are more complicated and given the extra wear and tear on the cars at the track, it will call into question even more the dependence on sensors etc etc.

The beauty of the sequential is that the driver can't miss a shift, ruin an engine, lose the race in a tenth of second. Every car at LeMans runs a sequential gearbox, so they last 24 hours of racing. WRC, everyone of them, SuperTourers and now V8Supercars, none of them use H pattern gearboxes. Motorsport (aircraft) quality sensors are a fact of life in all forms of professional motorsport,

Also the launcing of the car will be far more frequent in a motorsport inspired version of the car and again...DCT and launch control are damn consistant for launching times...but $$$$ Ok they are far more durable then the automated manuals like in the F430 etc, but all manuals have clutches and wear with frequent launches. The availability of clutch compounds/designs and packaging, (servicing - replacement for production racing) are all more difficult with a DCT box.

Sach released 3 different versions of the motorsport clutch pack for Golfs, I can see the market for GTR clutches being even larger. Give it 12 months and Sach, Tilton, AP, Carbonetic etc will all have motorsport clutches available for GTR's.

A more traditional gearbox will help with long term durability, a good thing if Nissan are looking at Group N type endurance racing...something i expect they are.

I believe exactly the reverse for the reasons above.

So, all weighed up i would expect Nissan to keep the DCT. Though i would not be surprised if they kept it for the road model only. I know if i was racing one i think i would prefer a normal manual

Personally I'd take the sequential every single time, that's as a driver and as the guy who pays the bills. Faster lap times and lower costs, what more could I ask.

Cheers

Gary