The Goods On Oils

[Galois]

+1

From my understanding oil can also smell burnt if it has been in there for too long. When you smell the burnt oil it is no longer efficiently lubrication the engine components.

[AngryRB]

Ive always used mobil 1 oil and find its perfect for my rb, no oil gets used and the colour is alway clear going to light brown before and oil change.

Before my last tune i did an oil change so it would have fresh oil but i noticed afterwards when i got it home and checked the oil it had turnt almost black.... so im guessing that is burnt oil .. my old man said it was likely the bearings lost some material...

I dont really understand why people want to go cheap on there oils, If its going to get boosted and thrashed,wouldnt it be better to pay $100 for 5 litres and be confident in your oil than risk a $60 oil??? maybe just go buy a lancer...

You should be on that supercheap add, hello my names ______ and im cruel to cars hahahah

[iamhe77]

Ive always used mobil 1 oil and find its perfect for my rb, no oil gets used and the colour is alway clear going to light brown before and oil change.

Before my last tune i did an oil change so it would have fresh oil but i noticed afterwards when i got it home and checked the oil it had turnt almost black.... so im guessing that is burnt oil .. my old man said it was likely the bearings lost some material...

I guess you didn't read any of the previous pages then.

The oil you drop from your engine SHOULD be black.

If it is coming out amber/brown, it is not cleaning the carbon from your engine satisfactorily.

If the oil is burned, you will know it by smell when you change out the old oil.

[AngryRB]

I guess you didn't read any of the previous pages then.

The oil you drop from your engine SHOULD be black.

If it is coming out amber/brown, it is not cleaning the carbon from your engine satisfactorily.

If the oil is burned, you will know it by smell when you change out the old oil.

I dont think the engine oil should turn black due to cleaning the engine inside, its more to do with blowby gases forming soot with turns it black, if its clean and ambor brown then it means your engine is in great condition or you just driving it mostly easy and limiting the soot build up by blowby.

my previous point was, usually my oil is clean so i dont have much build up of crap in my motor, and on a turbo motor thats serviced like most people do it should never get that dirty anyway.

the fact that after a tune it got black is because it was being flogged for a few hours and enough blow by created soot and turnt it black. Have a look at this site http://www.aei-tech.com/products/lube_oil_soot.html

[ARTZ]

[AngryRB]

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

That's very interesting, how does the tune depend on the oil? Like what are the changes in tune for different oils?

Also what did you mean by the 300v mixing, as in it can't be mixed with other oils? Or other 300v's?

theoretically the engine will be slowed by the thicker oil and should make less power (probably realistically a kw or 2)

300v oils are designed to be able to be mixed with other 300v oils to create custom viscosities... say for example you find that the 15w50 is too thin and the 20w60 is too thick you can 50/50 it and have 17.5w55

[Birds]

Ive always used mobil 1 oil and find its perfect for my rb, no oil gets used and the colour is alway clear going to light brown before and oil change.

Before my last tune i did an oil change so it would have fresh oil but i noticed afterwards when i got it home and checked the oil it had turnt almost black.... so im guessing that is burnt oil .. my old man said it was likely the bearings lost some material...

I dont really understand why people want to go cheap on there oils, If its going to get boosted and thrashed,wouldnt it be better to pay $100 for 5 litres and be confident in your oil than risk a $60 oil??? maybe just go buy a lancer...

You should be on that supercheap add, hello my names ______ and im cruel to cars hahahah

Huh? There may be a correlation between price and quality for oil, but that is not to say that every $60 oil is going to perform averagely. Same goes for a $100 oil. There is nothing that special about our cars...they are not NASA rockets. 5000hp dragsters use a 25w70 that costs about $20 a bottle...more important than the cost is the application, viscosity and service interval.

I dont think the engine oil should turn black due to cleaning the engine inside, its more to do with blowby gases forming soot with turns it black, if its clean and ambor brown then it means your engine is in great condition or you just driving it mostly easy and limiting the soot build up by blowby.

my previous point was, usually my oil is clean so i dont have much build up of crap in my motor, and on a turbo motor thats serviced like most people do it should never get that dirty anyway.

the fact that after a tune it got black is because it was being flogged for a few hours and enough blow by created soot and turnt it black. Have a look at this site http://www.aei-tech.com/products/lube_oil_soot.html

Blowby gases forming build up IS cleaning, and it does normally turn an oil black...particularly on a thinner oil where blowby is going to be more common...and particularly in a high detergent oil that is good at keeping the insides sparkling. Why are you reading an oil being black as a bad thing, yet adamant that a clean/amber looking oil is always going to be a good thing? The latter is a much more dangerous assumption - where is all your carbon build up going? An oil has two main jobs...lubricate and clean. It cleans by acting as a carrier - the build up gets trapped in the oil and circulates around the engine with it, which is why when you drain it, it is black and all the contaminants come out with the oil.

That link you posted is referring to diesel engines. A lot of soot is a much more normal/common issue in diesels. Hence there are specific diesel oils that feature additives and detergents designed to remove ash from the engine.

As the guys have said, your nose is a much better tell of an oil breaking down. There is much more to it than the colour. An oil turning black after dyno tuning is very common...this isn't just because of blowby, the oil itself will break down a lot quicker under high temperature and shearing. Hence it is always recommended that oil be replaced before/after dyno tuning or track days.

[scotty nm35]

Mine smells like ethanol when I drop it.

Thanks for reminding me to drop it for the dyno next week Birds.

[Birds]

You tuning or just running it up on the dyno? A couple of runs won't hurt.

[ARTZ]

but a healthy engine wont have a lot of carbon build up..if there is excess soot in your oil then it could just be there is excess carbon in your system and your engine (or tune) isn't healthy..

just because your oil is running black doesn't always just mean it is good at cleaning your engine it may just mean your engine is unnecessarily dirty..

in which case you have bigger problems than oil

also if your oil is carrying around all that carbon and your not changing it it is is just moving carbon around your engine in which case you would be better off if it wasn't collecting it so much..

it is easy (and dare I say a bit of a cop out) to say just change your oil all the time and you wont have a problem. But really, who wants to change their oil all the time, in this age of modern synthetics that have been proven to run 50,000kms without fail why just resort to these old fashion ideals and not think there may be another way..

sure you can buy a cheap oil and change it every 2000kms..or you could buy a better oil and change it every 5000kms..it probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference either way..but buying top dollar race oils for a street car is pointless..just like buying 20$ repco brand oil is silly if you are pushing the limits of your engine..

[AngryRB]

but a healthy engine wont have a lot of carbon build up..if there is excess soot in your oil then it could just be there is excess carbon in your system and your engine (or tune) isn't healthy..

just because your oil is running black doesn't always just mean it is good at cleaning your engine it may just mean your engine is unnecessarily dirty..

in which case you have bigger problems than oil

also if your oil is carrying around all that carbon and your not changing it it is is just moving carbon around your engine in which case you would be better off if it wasn't collecting it so much..

it is easy (and dare I say a bit of a cop out) to say just change your oil all the time and you wont have a problem. But really, who wants to change their oil all the time, in this age of modern synthetics that have been proven to run 50,000kms without fail why just resort to these old fashion ideals and not think there may be another way..

sure you can buy a cheap oil and change it every 2000kms..or you could buy a better oil and change it every 5000kms..it probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference either way..but buying top dollar race oils for a street car is pointless..just like buying 20$ repco brand oil is silly if you are pushing the limits of your engine..

+1 i agree,

surely if its black its past its use by date and saturated with carbon so drop it, it would only get black in a short time if the cars driven hard alot, out of tune, worn or crap oil.

Im sure the guys running drag cars, formula 1 and v8 supercars would drop it every race cause of the sheer stress on the engine/oil and it could well be black just because of the hard driving. so drive mostly normal and change the oil every 5000ks or drive really hard alot and change every 2000k's or less.

[Birds]

but a healthy engine wont have a lot of carbon build up..if there is excess soot in your oil then it could just be there is excess carbon in your system and your engine (or tune) isn't healthy..

just because your oil is running black doesn't always just mean it is good at cleaning your engine it may just mean your engine is unnecessarily dirty..

in which case you have bigger problems than oil

also if your oil is carrying around all that carbon and your not changing it it is is just moving carbon around your engine in which case you would be better off if it wasn't collecting it so much..

As I said, it's not enough to simply look at the colour of re oil and make assumptions about it. Never said it won't be indicative of an unhealthy engine, but rest assured that it is entirely normal for an RB engine to turn a good quality oil dark within a short time. My oil turns black after 1000km...an RB25 running standard boost and producing 170rwkw there's nothing unhealthy about it other than 100,000km of ordinary wear

As for being moved around an engine, that's perfectly fine...the carbon stays trapped in the oil and this does not leave deposits around your engine...unless you are running magnatec or some part sticking garbage.

[Birds]

+1 i agree,

surely if its black its past its use by date and saturated with carbon so drop it, it would only get black in a short time if the cars driven hard alot, out of tune, worn or crap oil.

Im sure the guys running drag cars, formula 1 and v8 supercars would drop it every race cause of the sheer stress on the engine/oil and it could well be black just because of the hard driving. so drive mostly normal and change the oil every 5000ks or drive really hard alot and change every 2000k's or less.

No that's just not true. You can dye an oil black with food dye, that does not mean it has ceased doing it's job. It does not take much carbon at all to turn an oil black, that does not mean is has turned into a molten pool of carbon buildup. Black oil will function just as well as amber coloured, more important is the molecular structure of it; it's shear stability. The most obvious telltale of this is the smell and texture of it, or use the rule of thumb service intervals.

For some mid-high end synthetic oils like Sougi or 300v, you can safely go 10,000km of normal driving without changing.

[AngryRB]

so what is the recommended or what is the best API (SH,SJ,SL,SM) rating for RB25's?

cause i was reading that the SM oils and even some SL oils have lower Zn and P and lower detergent as well, and that the Zn and P % is what protects the metal to metal contact from wear.

Apparently this % is reduced in the latest SM,SL oils because the valve trains are lighter and to protect catalytic converters and that the older SH, SJ oils have higher % Zn, P....

interesting how they lower this % in later higher rated oils such as Mobil 1 which ive been using has changed formula to lower % in the last couple of years, wont use it anymore now though after reading this website.... http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html#Z10

It rates redline and Motul 300v being the choice oils, and these also have great HTHS

interesting how motul 300v is rated SH ( so higher %P Zn) and also great HTHS, Looks like the choice oil from now on for me..

Edited June 26, 2011 by SliverS2

[ARTZ]

you might find this interesting Mark..

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1817829

300v is expensive stuff and doesnt last as long, id stick with a X-oil at nearly half the price but up to you

[Birds]

so what is the recommended or what is the best API (SH,SJ,SL,SM) rating for RB25's?

cause i was reading that the SM oils and even some SL oils have lower Zn and P and lower detergent as well, and that the Zn and P % is what protects the metal to metal contact from wear.

Apparently this % is reduced in the latest SM,SL oils because the valve trains are lighter and to protect catalytic converters and that the older SH, SJ oils have higher % Zn, P....

interesting how they lower this % in later higher rated oils such as Mobil 1 which ive been using has changed formula to lower % in the last couple of years, wont use it anymore now though after reading this website.... http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html#Z10

It rates redline and Motul 300v being the choice oils, and these also have great HTHS

interesting how motul 300v is rated SH ( so higher %P Zn) and also great HTHS, Looks like the choice oil from now on for me..

No idea to be honest, that's getting into the chemist side of things which surpasses my knowledge as an oil distributor

But...all oils (and automotive fluids in general) eventually head that way when it comes to meeting specifications. The progression from SL to SM etc., is the oil equivalent of DEX 2 to DEX 3 in automatic transmission fluid, DOT 3 to DOT 4 in brake fluid etc.

Many companies do retain product lines that meet older specifications, designed for use in older vehicles...so there is definitely some truth to what is being brought up there. But it also has a lot to do with keeping costs down, and it being unnecessary to create "new" products for older vehicles. Hence the latest specifications (SM for example) are always going to be targeted and designed for use in cars 0-10 years old. That does not mean they won't be good for use in older vehicles though, as long as viscosity properties are appropriate. DEX 3 can be used where DEX 2 is required, DOT 4 can be used where DOT 3 is required. However, DEX 2 and DOT 3 and cheaper to produce (and therefore purchase) than DEX 3 and DOT 4, hence they remained popular for use in older vehicles before being phased out.

I think you are putting too much emphasis on ultra specific oil properties, instead of concerning yourself with the most important things - cleaning function and lubrication. There are many more things that will give way in your engine before your valvetrain succumbs to damage because your oil didn't contain enough Zn and P. In short, grab a semi/full synthetic 10w40 of a reputable brand, stick it in your engine, change it every 5,000-10,000km (or as required) and you're laughing.

I also don't like any website that explains scientifically what you should look for in an oil, and then goes on to recommend choice products. I'd rather they tell someone what to look for in an oil and let the reader do their homework. It has a nasty habit of biasing the reading material towards that product. Even if it's true, it's not terribly ethical practice.

[Rolls]

so what is the recommended or what is the best API (SH,SJ,SL,SM) rating for RB25's?

cause i was reading that the SM oils and even some SL oils have lower Zn and P and lower detergent as well, and that the Zn and P % is what protects the metal to metal contact from wear.

I don't know the answer but at the end of the day I highly doubt it is going to matter. Perhaps email the oil manafacturers themselves?

[rehab2010]

you might find this interesting Mark..

http://www.bobistheo...&Number=1817829

300v is expensive stuff and doesnt last as long, id stick with a X-oil at nearly half the price but up to you

This is what Motul France recommends.

[AngryRB]

yeah i guess that kind of detail is getting very technical, thought id bounce the info off you guys anyway.

cheers for the feedback