Good Tow Cars?

[bri73y]

fuel costs is a big issue IMO.

at the end of the day it all adds up. not all of us have endless cash to play with to be able to use luxury 4wd's as tow cars and not worry about how much fuel your v10 twin turbo is going to use going from perth to qld... I know for me i have to budget carefully for every aspect of an interstate trip.

My point is when it comes to towing my GTR around I'm more worried about the cost to run it for the event than the fuel to get there.

Anyone that knows my GTR will know it's cost way too much over the years! It typically goes from home to the event to the mechanic!!

And yes, I suppose if I had to travel from Perth to QLD, regularly, then fuel consumption could be an issue. Anywhere up and down the East Coast is never more than around 1000kms, which at even 5L/100kms worse than other tow cars, several times a year, is nothing more than about $150 extra for the trip. Add that $150 to the $5000 or so the trip is probably costing you with accom/entrance fees/tyres/etc etc and it's not really that much of an increase in the budget.

[MBS206]

My point is when it comes to towing my GTR around I'm more worried about the cost to run it for the event than the fuel to get there.

Anyone that knows my GTR will know it's cost way too much over the years! It typically goes from home to the event to the mechanic!!

And yes, I suppose if I had to travel from Perth to QLD, regularly, then fuel consumption could be an issue. Anywhere up and down the East Coast is never more than around 1000kms, which at even 5L/100kms worse than other tow cars, several times a year, is nothing more than about $150 extra for the trip. Add that $150 to the $5000 or so the trip is probably costing you with accom/entrance fees/tyres/etc etc and it's not really that much of an increase in the budget.

50L extra per 1000KM done five times a year at $1.55 per litre is nearly a 10% increase in costs... And that doesn't worry you?

I think by changing tow cars and getting heaps better economy and saving so much is a good thing!

[fatz]

yea every bit counts

best part is not having to fill the car up 4 times driving sydney to pi ( gu patrol on gas)

smash the trip in a one go with no petrol stops rock

[Marlin]

Fatz is right, the most annoying thing for me is having to fill up too often when touring. A smallish tank, coupled with a pessemistic distance to empty trip computer, sees me pulling over every few hundred kays.

And I'm wuith Brighty, that no, 10% extra doesn't worry me. What price do you put on having something that's actually nice to sit for hours on end, nice to drive, and a great performing and pleasurable daily? 10% of the fuel cost for an occasional interstate towing trip? Yep, for sure!

TBH, a MUCH bigger issue is fringe benefits tax if using a non commercial vehicle.

[MBS206]

Fatz is right, the most annoying thing for me is having to fill up too often when touring. A smallish tank, coupled with a pessemistic distance to empty trip computer, sees me pulling over every few hundred kays.

And I'm wuith Brighty, that no, 10% extra doesn't worry me. What price do you put on having something that's actually nice to sit for hours on end, nice to drive, and a great performing and pleasurable daily? 10% of the fuel cost for an occasional interstate towing trip? Yep, for sure!

TBH, a MUCH bigger issue is fringe benefits tax if using a non commercial vehicle.

If it's a private car, towing for private stuff, there are no fringe benefits... Hence no FBT to worry about...

Edit: And I choose the economical tow vehicle that's comfy to sit in and a performer and pleasurable daily...

Hence, that 10% saving is lots to me!

[Marlin]

Sorry, I was referring more to those user-chooser business types. The FBT I pay by choosing a 4WD wagon is unfortunately several thousands of dollars per year, but, it's a price I've so far been happy to pay rather than be forced to drive a ute of sorts.

[hrd-hr30]

good tow cars... people with Falcons, go out and try an emergency brake from 110kph with 2000kg behind you. If you're game... how about in the wet? or downhill. how long do your brakes hold up going down a range? etc. They might be cheap to buy. 2008 onwards models might be uber cheap on fuel (at least when not towing). They might be comfy to drive everyday, but none of those things makes them good tow cars.

Not sure how up to date this info is from a caravanning site (but I found a similar thing on Ausfish posted this year), but its a good example of just how good passenger vehicles are for towing:

"Ford only permits 100km/h if the load is less than 1200 kg. At 1600 kg this drops to 90km/h. The speed further reduces until at 2300 kg, 80km/h is the maximum. Holden takes a similar approach but also ties the vehicle speed to the type of towing equipment fitted. Spending a few minutes reading the trailer towing section in the owners manual is highly recommended."

Edited January 16, 2012 by hrd-hr30

[boxheadmr]

In regards to braking simple answer is trailer brakes and no not the cable type but set up properly with electric brakes. you would most likely see the same result with 1800kg of falcon and 2000kg or more towing weight slamming on the brakes at 100klm/h on a wet road as you would towing with a 4wd towing the same load.

That is why you drive to the conditions.

[fatz]

have towed with q7

can confirm awesomness

[mad082]

good tow cars... people with Falcons, go out and try an emergency brake from 110kph with 2000kg behind you. If you're game... how about in the wet? or downhill. how long do your brakes hold up going down a range? etc. They might be cheap to buy. 2008 onwards models might be uber cheap on fuel (at least when not towing). They might be comfy to drive everyday, but none of those things makes them good tow cars.

Not sure how up to date this info is from a caravanning site (but I found a similar thing on Ausfish posted this year), but its a good example of just how good passenger vehicles are for towing:

"Ford only permits 100km/h if the load is less than 1200 kg. At 1600 kg this drops to 90km/h. The speed further reduces until at 2300 kg, 80km/h is the maximum. Holden takes a similar approach but also ties the vehicle speed to the type of towing equipment fitted. Spending a few minutes reading the trailer towing section in the owners manual is highly recommended."

as i said in an ealier post, if someone is only going to tow a few times a year then they are best of with a car that suits them for the 99% rather than the 1%. a falcon with stop more safely in the wet when not towing than a 4wd, is less likely to roll, etc, so if towing is a rarity then they would be better off with something more suited to daily driving.

[hrd-hr30]

In regards to braking simple answer is trailer brakes and no not the cable type but set up properly with electric brakes. you would most likely see the same result with 1800kg of falcon and 2000kg or more towing weight slamming on the brakes at 100klm/h on a wet road as you would towing with a 4wd towing the same load.

That is why you drive to the conditions.

don't agree.

1. most heavy duty ladder chassis 4WDs have load sensing brake proportioning valves which change braking bias with rear axle load. That means less deterioration of their normal braking performance compared to the passenger car.

2. And an extra 30% or more mass in front of the trailer - eg my GQ weighs 2350kg. They only get heavier as you get more modern and comfortable. So their naturally less affected by the load behind them.

3. And the ladder chassis that carries and distributes the forces of the trailer more effectively. Hence the 3500kg towing capacity, which is over 50% more than the Falcon's. With none of the caveats. There's alot more capability in reserve with a 4WD than something that's rated to more than 1600kg only with load stabilisers at a max ~80km/h. ie the 4WDs braking and handling will not be as adversely affected as the passenger cars' will be with a heavy load behind it.

4. Anyone who thinks 4WDs are as affected by the wet as a passenger car simply hasn't driven one in those conditions. Standing water on the highway no longer pulls your car around with ATs or MTs. HTs I can't speak for because I've never used them, but the fact they're turning so much slower than a tiny passenger car tyre gives them far more time to clear water. That mean less deterioration of their normal grip levels. And more stability.

Driving to the conditions? If your Falcon is rated to tow at 80km/h max (ie in good conditions), what do you do when conditions deteriorate? 60km/h? 70 maybe? You'd be a hazard to everyone else on the highway!

I can't cop the argument that 4WDs won't be better tow vehicles than passenger cars.

[nismoman]

as i said in an ealier post, if someone is only going to tow a few times a year then they are best of with a car that suits them for the 99% rather than the 1%. a falcon with stop more safely in the wet when not towing than a 4wd, is less likely to roll, etc, so if towing is a rarity then they would be better off with something more suited to daily driving.

+1 Well said, totally agree.

[evil_weevil]

I towed 6 times last year, and will tow less than that this year.

Can I use the Q7 for MRA Fatz seeings you arent going? lol

[MBS206]

don't agree.

1. most heavy duty ladder chassis 4WDs have load sensing brake proportioning valves which change braking bias with rear axle load. That means less deterioration of their normal braking performance compared to the passenger car.

2. And an extra 30% or more mass in front of the trailer - eg my GQ weighs 2350kg. They only get heavier as you get more modern and comfortable. So their naturally less affected by the load behind them.

3. And the ladder chassis that carries and distributes the forces of the trailer more effectively. Hence the 3500kg towing capacity, which is over 50% more than the Falcon's. With none of the caveats. There's alot more capability in reserve with a 4WD than something that's rated to more than 1600kg only with load stabilisers at a max ~80km/h. ie the 4WDs braking and handling will not be as adversely affected as the passenger cars' will be with a heavy load behind it.

4. Anyone who thinks 4WDs are as affected by the wet as a passenger car simply hasn't driven one in those conditions. Standing water on the highway no longer pulls your car around with ATs or MTs. HTs I can't speak for because I've never used them, but the fact they're turning so much slower than a tiny passenger car tyre gives them far more time to clear water. That mean less deterioration of their normal grip levels. And more stability.

Driving to the conditions? If your Falcon is rated to tow at 80km/h max (ie in good conditions), what do you do when conditions deteriorate? 60km/h? 70 maybe? You'd be a hazard to everyone else on the highway!

I can't cop the argument that 4WDs won't be better tow vehicles than passenger cars.

Considering we could pull my dads VT s commodore to a stop quicker with the caravan and all shit in it weighing 1800KG then what we could my uncles 100series cruiser.

Oh an that's in an emergency style braking...

Second to that, if you're really going to argue all the shot you are, you should be selling your 4WD for a truck.

A properly setup trailer on the back of a car will stop as quick, if not quicker then a 4WD.

The electric systems we run in our cars and trucks for towing my dads trailers you can actually feel the trailer pulling up the car and truck more then the car/trucks brakes do. (just so you know, the family company runs 2 trucks towing around 3 tonne each day, plus upto 3 tonne on the back, and dad had two large caravans he towed on the back of an S commodore... He noted no difference in towing usig a 2010 hilux. He's now sold the smallest caravan...)

An improperly setup one will jack knife and roll both.

And isn't it funny, out of all the times I've driven the F3 freeway when people have lost car trailers and caravans, its been in the ratio of 4 4WD (patrols and cruisers not soft roaders) to every one commodore or falcon...

And seeing as more people seem to toe with commodores an falcons, they must be better... ... ...

[MattR]

http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/porsche-cayenne-2004-11515394?cr=0&distance=25&vertical=Car&eapi=2&page=1&sort=~Price&__N=1216 1247 1252 1282 4294963765 4294963552&silo=Stock&Range=Price:Min,Max~1

how would they compare to the Q7

[zoidbergmerc]

I've had my 2003 3L TD Navara for 6 months now, still living the dream, tow my 33 about once a month. Doesn't use much juice as long as I'm not in a hurry It's my daily too, get around 750kms from a tank, mostly because I drive like an old man though.

[fatz]

I towed 6 times last year, and will tow less than that this year.

Can I use the Q7 for MRA Fatz seeings you arent going? lol

yea.... na

i tow things every weekend

trailer is almost permanatly attached lugging shit

poeple who tow shit 6 times a year should be banned from this thread!

[Marlin]

http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/porsche-cayenne-2004-11515394?cr=0&distance=25&vertical=Car&eapi=2&page=1&sort=~Price&__N=1216 1247 1252 1282 4294963765 4294963552&silo=Stock&Range=Price:Min,Max~1

how would they compare to the Q7

Very similar underpinnings, fractionally shorter wheelbase.

Obviously that era is all petrol V8's, and will use more full than a diesel version which uses the VW/Audi engine.

[bri73y]

Very similar underpinnings, fractionally shorter wheelbase.

Obviously that era is all petrol V8's, and will use more full than a diesel version which uses the VW/Audi engine.

I think you'll find also that the Q7 has about 250nm more to play with also...

Most Cayennes I looked at before settling on the R50 had only 500nm (approx).

You need more than 500nm to tow 3t effectively IMO

Fatz, doesn't the Q7 have about 750nm ?? (I looked at them also, but I don't care for soccer mums as I'm happily married)

[Marlin]

I was assuming we wwere talking about the V6 diesel Q7/Toureg.... which from memory serves up 550nm.