[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos

[Lithium]

As excited as I was about these, the first dyno plot I have seen for one isn't knocking my socks off - this is from the Sierra Sierra EVO running the EFR8374:

[T04GTR]

TEAH, 750HP is pretty weak... for a gt35 sized turbo..

[T04GTR]

the 9180 looks the same, just an extra 80hp

[Lithium]

TEAH, 750HP is pretty weak... for a gt35 sized turbo..

Engine horsepower, on a race engine running race gas at 32psi - a standard issue GT3582R will give that a good crack and spool substantially quicker, something like a PT6262 would probably make it look a bit lacking.

[NYTSKY]

As excited as I was about these, the first dyno plot I have seen for one isn't knocking my socks off - this is from the Sierra Sierra EVO running the EFR8374:

Looks pretty laggy. Light switch power delivery.

A 500hp increase within 1000rpm

[Lithium]

Yeah sorry I should have clarified that it was the lag which didn't impress me too much, making a bunch of power isn't what I am specifically looking for - more how it gets there and holds it. That torque curve climbs with a hiss and a roar (that starts building at 4000rpm - fairly late) and then drops off.

[FineLine]

I think a built 3 litre will smooth that sucker out and bring boost on considerably earlier.

The sierra siearra crew are running a 2.2 litre 4 banger so i would consider that result more than acceptable with that configuration.

[Lithium]

Of course a 3litre will do well, I'm not convinced that the spool (at least in that case) is much better than a GT4088R which will also make that power piece of piss. 4G63s push turbos very nicely!

To put it into perspective, here's a dyno plot from an open housing Precision turbo on a 2litre EVO showing a not heap worst spool - this is at the wheels btw (granted the EFR was hopefully not at its limit):

Imagine the same thing on a 2.2litre would even up the spool quite happily... and a twin scroll housing, who knows.

[Beer Baron]

hmm it doesn't look quite as nice as hoped does it. but graphs are one thing real world performance is another. My problem with it is that there is a big gap between the 750hp rated 8374 and the 1000hp rated 9180. right now it would be really nice to have a 850hp model in there. all the other models have nice 100hp steps between them (or less on the B1 models) but from the 750 it goes straight to 10000.

oh well I'm sure there will be some aus results soon enough.

[zebra]

hmmm 10,000hp turbo...Will it bolt straight on to my Rb20E and will I need to do anything else to make it fit?

LOL

Anyhoo, Is there a graph of the Sierra Sierra EMO with the Previous turbo?

Might give a better Idea on any gains.

[Ryan1200]

Quote from Geoff on another forum.

"i will get two sierra sierra dynoplots posted on full-race.com later tonite. The comaprisons are of the 8374 and the 9180. dyno runs were all done on a mustang dyno at 2bar boost, and the cam gears were played with a bit. Unfortunately these were some new cams they were testing out and not the actual cams that are in the car for race day, so tq was dropping off hard and the turbo wasnt spooling as early as they liked. I asked them to redyno the car with the right cams and we will get those dynos updated".

[Nee-san]

Engine horsepower, on a race engine running race gas at 32psi - a standard issue GT3582R will give that a good crack and spool substantially quicker, something like a PT6262 would probably make it look a bit lacking.

Especially on a yank dyno

[Super_Dude]

If you compare torque on the EFR and the precision at 5000rpm it tells a very different story. The EFR is over 600, the precision is at 300. I don't think anything is going to even these turbos out.

Don't forget this is a 2.2l making 200hp@4000 rpm, and 650hp+ from 5000-8500rpm. I think these are good results considering they are trying new cam that they say are causing both lag and loosing power up top over there old cams.

I don't have my dyno sheet handy but I'm pretty sure my gt40r 2.6 isn't getting 200hp till 4500 (I had pretty poor results on the last compression test however.)

About the EFR84374 on an RB30 I'm going to be trying this combo in the spring and I can't wait. I would try the 9180 but I don't want to be replacing drivetrain parts every trackday.

[Lithium]

If you compare torque on the EFR and the precision at 5000rpm it tells a very different story. The EFR is over 600, the precision is at 300. I don't think anything is going to even these turbos out.

Don't forget this is a 2.2l making 200hp@4000 rpm, and 650hp+ from 5000-8500rpm. I think these are good results considering they are trying new cam that they say are causing both lag and loosing power up top over there old cams

Bigger displacement improves spool AND adds torque for a given boost level, if the 2.2 setup was equal spool to the 2litre it would still look substantially better. Twin scroll helps spool a bit more, as well as midrange torque, trying a new set of cams from their best setup doesn't means its gong to be shit, and the Precision turbo is at wheels compared with engine dyno for the BW. Would like to hear some driving impressions or see more results of course.

[Super_Dude]

Bigger displacement improves spool AND adds torque for a given boost level, if the 2.2 setup was equal spool to the 2litre it would still look substantially better. Twin scroll helps spool a bit more, as well as midrange torque, trying a new set of cams from their best setup doesn't means its gong to be shit, and the Precision turbo is at wheels compared with engine dyno for the BW. Would like to hear some driving impressions or see more results of course.

Don't be fooled by where it says eng power, it is whp. Its also on a mustang dyno which usually reads lower.

.2L + twin scroll isn't going to double the torque of a motor using the same turbo.

The efr is also only at 32psi. What boost is that precision at?

[Full-Race Geoff]

Bigger displacement improves spool AND adds torque for a given boost level, if the 2.2 setup was equal spool to the 2litre it would still look substantially better. Twin scroll helps spool a bit more, as well as midrange torque, trying a new set of cams from their best setup doesn't means its gong to be shit, and the Precision turbo is at wheels compared with engine dyno for the BW. Would like to hear some driving impressions or see more results of course.

are you serious? I dont think you and I are looking at the same dyno charts... do the math of Sierra's EFR vs the precision you posted. Literally write the RPM points down with hp & tq. Until you do this, you havent made a direct comparison. This car is a 2.2L engine making 700lb-ft around 5000rpm.. that is unheard of. The twinscroll EFR is murdering the precision everywhere in the powerband that matters - and thats not taking into account the dynojet vs mustang dyno argument. the EFR gains i see from that chart are:

EFR @ 3500rpm +85wtq / +65whp

EFR @ 4000rpm +100wtq / +110whp

EFR @ 5000rpm +400wtq / +400whp

EFR @ 6000rpm +100wtq / +100whp

EFR @ 7000rpm +60wtq / -20whp

EFR @ 8000rpm -30wtq / -40whp

Think about where you spend most of the time using the engine, and what RPM points it occupies.. and that is called powerband optimization. The biggest benefit of the EFR is the lightweight turbine wheel - and that is NOT shown on any dyno. There is no way to measure that, except judging by the grin on the driver's face.

VS

Don't be fooled by where it says eng power, it is whp. Its also on a mustang dyno which usually reads lower. .2L + twin scroll isn't going to double the torque of a motor using the same turbo. The efr is also only at 32psi. What boost is that precision at?

^^+1 the mustang dynos read MUCH less than dynojets or dynapacks, and there is no way in hell 0.2L displacement will create those gains.

My problem with it is that there is a big gap between the 750hp rated 8374 and the 1000hp rated 9180. right now it would be really nice to have a 850hp model in there. all the other models have nice 100hp steps between them (or less on the B1 models) but from the 750 it goes straight to 10000.

dont fret and get stuck on the numbers... this is a 79lb/min compressor wheel, it can get very close to that 850hp level you want to reach. However the rotating assembly is MUCH lighter weight and has a much higher grade ball bearing than anything on the market. response will be unrivaled.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Full-Race Geoff

[bigmikespec]

Geoff, is there any more information on that blue R34 GTR with a big single EFR turbo that was at SEMA?

[Full-Race Geoff]

Geoff, is there any more information on that blue R34 GTR with a big single EFR turbo that was at SEMA?

it is getting tuned next week, along with the white twin turbo r34 gtr, ill be sure to post up results as soon as they are done

[Lithium]

LOL I was clearly having a bad day, cheers for clearing that up Geoff - my bad. I actually thought that was engine dyno results, not Mustang dyno.... that makes a HUGE difference to how I look at those results too. Very very very nice work, and that makes much more sense

[Beer Baron]

dont fret and get stuck on the numbers... this is a 79lb/min compressor wheel, it can get very close to that 850hp level you want to reach. However the rotating assembly is MUCH lighter weight and has a much higher grade ball bearing than anything on the market. response will be unrivaled.

thanks buddy i am not worried. and we are very excited about lots of the changes. hard to pick one that I like the most. we have been bouncing around the airwaves talking about stuff and I have a new email for you in your inbox.