Power Fc Vs Nistune

[GTSBoy]

@ PaulR33, Rolls, GTSBoy - If MAP wasn't as good for performance then why is it incorporated with the the PFC D-Jetro (higher end) ECU package?

I think the main reason that the D-Jetro version was made to handle MAP is that there was a period of time when everyone thought that the only way you could do a big power RB26 was to delete the 6 throttles, put in a big single TB and run MAP sensing. That got them away from the various problems that they were having with AFM pulsations etc etc, got them away from perceived (but not necessarily real) problems with multiple throttles causing restriction and otherwise interfering with "tuning". It is certainly true that if you're having AFM problems (either from not being able to get big enough ones, or from turbo inlet pulsation/backflow/whatever, then going MAP will certainly make your life easier. But it is not essential if you know why you are having problems and know how to design around them or design them away.

FWIW, an RB20 runing a Microtech with MAP and IAT is easier to get to reduced cruise fuel consumption and make a bit more power than running Nistune (as an example). A Nistuned factory ECU will retain a lot of other niceties that the Microtech misses out on, so the Microtech experience is not all as good, but in terms of making power and getting the mixtures right, it's perfectly workable. The same is true of a big power RB26, naturally enough.

[STATUS]

Tuning resolution has very little to do with the accuracy of a tune. Dont ever let tuning resolution sway your judgement on what ecu to use.

The BA-FG V8 engine is speed density based and only uses 2 1x14 lookup tables to map the entire engine operation. And it still gets through euro3/4 emmissions compliance.

Bingo, most factory ecu's dont use "base maps" anymore, it all based on ve calculations and lookups.

[89CAL]

Yeah just checked Google and NS. I can confirm I had fail searches! Thanks for the clear up.

PFC Pro only has launch control.

But I have some points I'd like to clear up too, perhaps STATUS can shed some light on this too:

@ PaulR33 - Your stating that MAP won't produce better results as oppossed with a MAF.

@ PaulR33, Rolls, GTSBoy - If a MAP sensor is based on a table with direct input then wouldn't you be able to tune it finer without having inaccuracies unlike the MAF? If MAP wasn't as good for performance then why is it incorporated with the the PFC D-Jetro (higher end) ECU package?

Sorry if it's starting to sway off-topic, but I believe the nitty gritty bits of information is important before laying cash out for either a PFC or NIStune.

Remember that the D-Jetro Doesnt HAVE to run a Map sensor. You can still run AFM('s) but have the option of running a MAP sensor. So above all else the D-Jetro Gives you the option to run a MAP Sensor based system if you either think its better or dont want/cant afford to buy two Z32 AFMs etc for higher horsepower

Or thats what I think anyway, I'm no expert lol

[rob82]

Bingo, most factory ecu's dont use "base maps" anymore, it all based on ve calculations and lookups.

Well in that application it is modelled as 2D linear algorithm lookup table but it does become 3D once cam phasing is used.

And as for MAP based systems - they are getting very complicated these days and manufactures are now using artificial neural networks to model cylinder fill. And at then end of all that most systems(Bosch) still use a MAF sensor to determine cylinder fill and only fall back to the ANN when the MAF fails.

In my mind there is nothing that beats a MAF in terms of metering of air into and engine. The more complicated engine's get (variable cams, variable length manifolds, direct injection etc etc) the better off you are going to be in using a MAF sensor.

[Ruff Ryda]

Lots of useful info when comparing ECUs, love it.

Thanks for taking the time to do so.

[W0rp3D]

Im thinking about going auto in my 33, just wondering if a modified Z32 ecu running nistune will run the auto the same as an r33 ecu would in regards to timing changes on shifts?

[Torques]

Hi!

Since you know both system, has the PowerFC a higher resolution?

By that I mean on Nistune you have a certain number of 'load-cells (TP on the X-Axis))' is this any different on PowerFC?

I'm a tuner, I do powerfcs, Vipec, and Link.

Played with a nistune, it is by far the best on a budget, and just as capable as the powerfc, if not more capable.

The others are for higher performance applications.

[GTSBoy]

Yes it does. No, it doesn't really matter.

Edited July 24, 2011 by GTSBoy

[darkhalf]

just wondering if a modified Z32 ecu running nistune will run the auto the same as an r33 ecu would in regards to timing changes on shifts?

Interested to know how you went with this Trent. Get asked this a few times but no feedback from those who did do it. The Z32 ECU with AT image just passes though the sensor information to AT ECU but I remember you had an issue with TPS control to the AT ECU. Did you get that sorted?

[W0rp3D]

The Z32 ECU with AT image just passes though the sensor information to AT ECU but I remember you had an issue with TPS control to the AT ECU.

From what i have read the 33 controls the AT from the ECU, thats why you cant use a power fc on an AT 33, is this wrong?

[darkhalf]

Wrong. Depends on model skyline

Earlier ECUs with blue connector plug like ECR33 have an engine only ECU with TX/RX lines going to a separate AT control computer. ECR33 PowerFC probably doesnt have the AT control lines to the AT ECU for ECR33. Not sure I dont work with PowerFCs to confirm this

For Stagea and ER34 the AT controller is build into the engine ECU (grey connector plug with extra wires)

[350tonner]

How long dose it to install and tune a nistune in a r32 rb 20

[Ad's]

Wouldn't you just get a remap done on the rb20 computer? Would work out cheaper i would say unless you really wanted nistune.

[Rolls]

Wouldn't you just get a remap done on the rb20 computer? Would work out cheaper i would say unless you really wanted nistune.

A remap is a pain in the ass to do as you have to do one chip at a time, takes the same amount of time as doing a full nistune real time map and gets much worse results. Nistune you can remap live, have map tracing, it is the same as tuning a full aftermarket ecu.

Difference is night and day in the results.

How long dose it to install and tune a nistune in a r32 rb 20

How long is a piece of string? What is done to your rb20? A nistune is $400, how long and how much the tune is depends on who, what, where etc.

Edited November 12, 2011 by Rolls

[Moodles2]

As for installing, it only takes 5mins max to get the ECU out of the car, same ammount to get back in. To do the daughterboard install inside the ECU probably didn't take Matt (Nistune owner) more than 15mins to solder it in, someone competent with micro-soldering shouldn't take more than an hour. As for how long the tune will take, depends on the tuner (just a max power tune, or taking the time to do low/mid cruise etc)

[350tonner]

Can a r32 Gtr ecu do the same job with mods as a nistune?

[Rolls]

Can a r32 Gtr ecu do the same job with mods as a nistune?

I don't understand the question. But yes a nistune can be installed in a R32 rb26det ECU.

[350tonner]

So you can tune a Gtr ecu like you tune a nistune ecu ?

[zebra]

Whut?

No

[Rolls]

So you can tune a Gtr ecu like you tune a nistune ecu ?

What are you I dont even?

Nistune isn't an ecu, it is a daughterboard that is installed in an ecu. Look at the website.

Edited November 12, 2011 by Rolls