New Ecu, E85, Map Sensor

[SargeRX8]

Hey guys.

As it stands my car is treating me well(touch wood). The motor is still healthy and going strong. At the moment Ive got the Power FC ECU for my Rb25det series 2 motor. I want to switch over to either run E85 or better yet, setup the car for flex fuel(run what ever is available). But I have some general questions.

1) Are Nismo 740cc injectors enough? They run about 55% at 20psi on my SS2 turbo. I have a 040 feeding them.

2) Are there any other hardware changes that need to be made to run E85?

Now to ask about ECU's, I have NO idea what to get. So far Ive been looking at the Link G4 ECU and the Haltech Platinum plugin for my R33. The only needs I really have of the ECU are the ability to be able to run an ethanol content sensor, MAP over MAF, some sort of knock warning or knock protection feature.

Does anyone know any Sydney based tuners who will take my power fc and swap it for another ECU + tune with cash adjustment?

I don't want this to be another money pit. I am doing this just for power, but also to try keep my motor running cool and healthy.

Ive been reading other threads but they get cluttered with alot of information. If this one stays clean, it should get to the point quickly!

Cheers.

[boostn0199]

Depends how much power youll be making if the injectors and pump will be enough. In my case Im at 300mark with nismo 555 and theres not much left in them so Id say maybe up to 350 you should get away with the 740 but the pump might need a 044 or a nismo if going more than 300.

[GTScotT]

Insight quoted me about 1500 plus plus for a flex tune, i would need to pay for workshop labour to drain the tank and i would need to supply fuel for them to mix

I would use an adaptronic ecu and a GM ethanol sensor or the recommended Link/Vipec item but I think the adaptronic is a lot cheaper

I dont think its worth it either way.. you are far from maxing out your SS2 as it is, you should sort that out before you bother doing anything else

[R33 Eddy]

Excellent Topic Sarge, i will be aiming for 350rwkw on E85 as well. So far i have read and been told different things, like 1000cc injectors wont be enough and that i will need TWO 044 fuel pumps.. where i have read that 1000cc is enough and a nismo or one 044 will be enough for 350KW on E85.

I am looking at a Wolf V500 ECU to go MAP but not sure if i supports a ethanol content sensor..

will be watching to see what is suggested for your setup

[KiwiRS4T]

Trading in your PFC doesn't sound like a goer. A tuner gets a margin on a new ecu and would be hard put to sell yours at a profit unless he gave you a really low price for it. It would be better for you and the tuner if you just sold yours privately later.

[Mick_o]

What sorta power you chasing and what you got now?

If you want to do it cheap just dump the 98 and fill her up and re tune her.

My car went in yesterday with a G4 and 7 bar map sensor $1800 for them alone plus the price of the tune

You can make ya power by winding the timing in or by winding the timing in and the extra boost if your fuel system is up to it

U should get 300kw with the 740s dude

[SargeRX8]

I was making 255rwkw from the SS2. As said above in my OP, the main target is not the power but after the features of the ethanol fuels(lower det levels, much lower toxins). Its still all up in the air. My intake pipe is no longer a problem and it will be going in for a touch up tune with DVS JEZ. My car has 153psi minimum across all 6. Ive got the fattest flowing exhaust I can buy without being a street pig. I have got EVERYTHING to now get at least 300rwkw from the SS2. If it doesn't happen on the tune up, I will certainly be ditching the whole switch to E85 and any further mods and just stick to the car as is.

I too have read too many things about my injectors. Some say 555's are enough for a good 280rwkw on E85, others say you need minimum 1000ID's to get anywhere past 300.

I just calculated my fuel consumption. I filled a full tank two days ago. Done 155km of driving. Filled up to the top, took 13.5 litres. That is 8.7L to the 100km. This is driving through traffic too. I know not to expect any fuel economy from E85 if I make the move lol.

Edited January 17, 2012 by SargeRX8

[Mick_o]

Go up and see jezzy boy with sweet F A premo in ya tank touch up ya tune now that ya sorted the bugs if ya not happy with the end result still have 40L of E85 handy and get him to work his magic on the good stuff just might need to have plenty of time up ya sleeve so jez can sort out the cold start up

[DVS JEZ]

Cold start is easy. Just keep cranking till it starts lol. Jks.

My cars start easily on E85 cold

[usmair]

the injectors depends on the style of your tuner... but isnt the rule to add an extra 30% on top and see if the injectors can support it...

with 740cc you would probably get away with 300kw but would be at 80-90% duty cycle

in terms of the ECU, I'm going with the Haltech PS2000 for my 33 GTR

I'm doing the flex fuel too, using PowerTune in Sydney.

Dunno about other ECUs but the Haltech needs another input thingi to be able to read the e85 sensor signal

Its not cheap lol... I know you said you were after e85 for safety as well rather than 300kw alone but I rekon you could just buy a 3076 and tune that and the cost will still be less than half of what it would cost to go new ecu and do a flex fuel tune

[Mick_o]

Hahaha hope my car starts easily! Is it hard getting the cold start set up initially Jez?

Cold start is easy. Just keep cranking till it starts lol. Jks.

My cars start easily on E85 cold

[rob82]

The other thing to consider is the current state of tune and the reliance of your particular setup to octane level. You may find that there maybe little hp gain in going to E85. I think this is where people run into issues with injector sizing as the BSFC of their pump fuel tune is shit so when crossing over to E85 they need massive injectors.

What does your timing curve under full load look like?

[ARTZ]

First off, before spending more money on flexfuel setups etc...have you considered just buying a larger turbo, would work out cheaper and more beneficial in the long run...

Secondly, i think the SS2 would benefit on E85, the lower EGTs are handy with the smaller housings..

IMO...Adaptronic or Link...Link is better, many would say best , Adaptronic is cheaper..and probably just as capable...how much better the Link is I am not sure...depends how much you get the adaptronic for..at 1500$ rrp, i would probably just pay the 1600$ for the Link..But HG does good deals on the Adaptonic if you bought a turbo off him , which you have, it can be had for 1100$..absolute bargain considering its capabilities..only thing extra you will need is an IAT sensor, 40$ tops...and a boost solenoid for 50$ should you wish to use the inbuilt boost control..by the time you sell your AFM, PFC and Boost controller you would have close to enough to buy an Adaptronic off him.. Also the support on the Adaptronic forums is really good and your supporting an Aussie made product....

I swapped out my PFC for the Adaptronic,(more by coincidence than intentional choice)..I feel its the best decision I have made in a long time, built in MAP built in boost control, Boost by gear, eflex compatible, plus some other stuff I dont understand yet, its a very capable unit..I will be utilizing all of it too in my new setup ..

I say Doo eeett, but dont expect miracle power gains....

Keep the Nismos..740 will be fine your only at 55% you got heaps of room..your turbo will run out of puff before they do...

[T04GTR]

you will need to get a twin dewchwerks 300 pump set up. (cheap) there is room in the tank for them. your injectors will be on the very limit. evan with a pressure increase. ecu, well the link seems to be the top choice atm.

do it once and do it propperly.

if you are hesatant on buying a new ecu before you have sold your pfc, then i suspect you wont be able to budget it. dyno tuning and setting up the flex fuel compensation maps will take alot of time on the dyno. =$$

untill there is more e85 available id opt for a 3071 or 3076 upgrade instead.

your 040 pump is not a good choice. (how does it get to the bottom of the tank? )

[SS8_Gohan]

Dunno about other ECUs but the Haltech needs another input thingi to be able to read the e85 sensor signal

?? really?

G4 doesn't need any extra hardware, has at least 2 digital input points as far as i know... you talking about a harness of some sort?

To the OP: To be honest, i don't know if you'll see 300rwkw if you're 255 on 98 - i was 256 at about 18psi on 98 with my GTT, an OP6 highflow (so prob a little more restrictive than yours) and we got to 280-285 on E85. I had 740cc injectors and a drop-in walbro fuel pump, was plenty of fueling.

I don't see why you would think it's a waste if you don't get 300... my GT-T was so much fun to drive on E85, great 25 gearbox, heaps of mid-range and quite responsive being a highflow, brilliant street car. You'll have a very similar setup and even if you get say 285rwkw, IMO it's still a very worthwhile exercise.

and besides, with the torque and power you have, you better make sure the suspension and tyres are up to the task

and for ECU choice, Link G4 is a great bit of kit... good exchange rate with NZ at the moment, so you might find you can save a bit buying one from there.

and if you want to save more money, you could get a second hand GM ethanol sensor from a wreck in the US (or if lucky, find a wrecked flex fuel Holden here), could get one of those for 40-50 bucks in the states at least

[SargeRX8]

First off, before spending more money on flexfuel setups etc...have you considered just buying a larger turbo, would work out cheaper and more beneficial in the long run...

Secondly, i think the SS2 would benefit on E85, the lower EGTs are handy with the smaller housings..

IMO...Adaptronic or Link...Link is better, many would say best , Adaptronic is cheaper..and probably just as capable...how much better the Link is I am not sure...depends how much you get the adaptronic for..at 1500$ rrp, i would probably just pay the 1600$ for the Link..But HG does good deals on the Adaptonic if you bought a turbo off him , which you have, it can be had for 1100$..absolute bargain considering its capabilities..only thing extra you will need is an IAT sensor, 40$ tops...and a boost solenoid for 50$ should you wish to use the inbuilt boost control..by the time you sell your AFM, PFC and Boost controller you would have close to enough to buy an Adaptronic off him.. Also the support on the Adaptronic forums is really good and your supporting an Aussie made product....

I swapped out my PFC for the Adaptronic,(more by coincidence than intentional choice)..I feel its the best decision I have made in a long time, built in MAP built in boost control, Boost by gear, eflex compatible, plus some other stuff I dont understand yet, its a very capable unit..I will be utilizing all of it too in my new setup ..

I say Doo eeett, but dont expect miracle power gains....

Keep the Nismos..740 will be fine your only at 55% you got heaps of room..your turbo will run out of puff before they do...

Ive got the SS2, its meant to be on par, if not a little further ahead that the 3076. I should technically be topping out at about 300rwkw. When I got my initial tune, my intake pipe was a restriction. Its been rectified and I am going in for a retune to see where I stand now. The adaptronic sounds like a good option but I need to find a tuner up here who is going to set it all up for me, and I am quite fond of the work Jez has done so far.

I really want to swap my ECU out also to eliminate the issues with stalling between gears. I have nfi what the cause is, I have everything plumbed back and it still does it. If I ran a map setup, I won't have to worry about it

Ive heard my injectors will be enough, but Ive also heard they won't be...

you will need to get a twin dewchwerks 300 pump set up. (cheap) there is room in the tank for them. your injectors will be on the very limit. evan with a pressure increase. ecu, well the link seems to be the top choice atm.

do it once and do it propperly.

if you are hesatant on buying a new ecu before you have sold your pfc, then i suspect you wont be able to budget it. dyno tuning and setting up the flex fuel compensation maps will take alot of time on the dyno. =$

untill there is more e85 available id opt for a 3071 or 3076 upgrade instead.

your 040 pump is not a good choice. (how does it get to the bottom of the tank? )

Ive read good things about those pumps and will highly consider them if I do make this move. Had I known what the options were now, I wouldn't have bought a PFC in the first place but honestly, the PFC is a great ECU, its just out dated these days.

As I said above, my SS2 turbo is meant to be on par with those turbo's. Comes on quick and meant to make big power with the same boost. My car had a restriction which I hopefully fixed...

Ive also read that about these pumps, but both my skylines had the same pump, and both have seen the warning fuel light come on before I ever had any issues... And I never have.

?? really?

G4 doesn't need any extra hardware, has at least 2 digital input points as far as i know... you talking about a harness of some sort?

To the OP: To be honest, i don't know if you'll see 300rwkw if you're 255 on 98 - i was 256 at about 18psi on 98 with my GTT, an OP6 highflow (so prob a little more restrictive than yours) and we got to 280-285 on E85. I had 740cc injectors and a drop-in walbro fuel pump, was plenty of fueling.

I don't see why you would think it's a waste if you don't get 300... my GT-T was so much fun to drive on E85, great 25 gearbox, heaps of mid-range and quite responsive being a highflow, brilliant street car. You'll have a very similar setup and even if you get say 285rwkw, IMO it's still a very worthwhile exercise.

and besides, with the torque and power you have, you better make sure the suspension and tyres are up to the task

and for ECU choice, Link G4 is a great bit of kit... good exchange rate with NZ at the moment, so you might find you can save a bit buying one from there.

and if you want to save more money, you could get a second hand GM ethanol sensor from a wreck in the US (or if lucky, find a wrecked flex fuel Holden here), could get one of those for 40-50 bucks in the states at least

The thing is I should be on about 300 on 98 fuel... Its good to see your injectors were holding out, gives me some hope as I did pay a good penny for these Nismos.

My mind is set on the G4 but that is because Ive done most of my research on that ECU alone. I actually never thought of the adaptronic, and if I can get it at a cheaper price, hell that is an awesome option!

[Piggaz]

Sarge. Having just put a G4 in my own car I am very impressed with it. I wouldn't hesitate with buying one!

[ARTZ]

Adaptronic is just an ECU...Im sure any tuner could work with it..

[SS8_Gohan]

oh ok, if your hypergear is meant to be a 3076 equivalent, then yeah, with a fixed intake 300rwkw sounds quite do-able then. My HG turbo was smaller from memory.

put it this way, i have ID1000's and a Nismo intank pump on my GTR and we didn't have any fueling issues up to 400rwkw on E85, 21psi. IMO 740cc, a good pump, and you should be fine. But as shown, it does seem to have a lot to do with how your tuner likes to tune so it's probably best to chat to them regarding fueling. On paper, i think it seems fine but it might not be enough for your tuner to be happy, and that's something to consider.

[Jap_star]

I've got 740s with an 044 on e85 and its fine