Aca Forum/interview!

[KURAUN]

where did i once mention harder? i said felt more dangerous. Maybe you should learn to read properly

[NISMATT]

It's not the cars.. It' the people driving them.

Agree 100%.

You can kill yourself in anything if you drive like a goose.

[R31Nismoid]

Just to reinforce the lucrative side of things - wife gets busted doing a few k's over 80 by the TOG in Kinglake - fines her anyway. He then goes on to put his important safety hat on - states that they've had 'complaints from the locals about hoons'. I ask when the complaints are lodged - he admits they are late at night, when groups of cars come up and do burnouts all over the main road.

To be fair the Vic Police have had an Operation going on up in those areas for the past 3 months, might be finished, not too sure.

The funny thing was though from the source... They hadn't "caught" anywhere near as many people as they had anticipated, nor were there actually "as many" people misbehaving up there overall as initially thought.

I think that in itself reasserts to some degree that the whole "hoon" thing really is being blown up in a sensationalist manner by Media, Police & Gov't. As a result communities are over sensitive to it all and basically cry wolf at the drop of a feather due to being wound up so tight.

I mean people driving up through there is nothing new, it's been doing on for 30 years.

[PhoenixGSR]

where did i once mention harder? i said felt more dangerous. Maybe you should learn to read properly

Dude, a FWD is only more dangerous when it has a lot of power to induce too much torque steer or at speed (even then it's contentious). A FWD is actually a proven safer format for normal driving conditions. Please take no offence, do a bit of research and you will see.

Edited April 4, 2012 by PhoenixGSR

[Turboterrorist]

really can't be f**ked arguing with someone that's clearly trolled over from ns.com

I've driven rwd/4wd and fwd within the law on the streets i still find fwd to be more dangerous than both previous cars I've had

obviously if your being a dick on the roads anything is going to be more dangerous whether it be fwd, rwd or 4wd

then tyres, suspension, drivers level comes into it, yes I'm not a perfect driver however I drive sensibly on the streets and follow the road rules

I'm just saying in my experience i find fwd to be most dangerous, and its hard to say fwd/rwd/4wd is better worse because people still have accidents in all types of cars

people did just fine years ago when cars were majority rwd.

either way not going to bother anymore cbf said my piece

If you're talking about understeer in a RWD, that's a bit different. RWDs, especially those with heavy engines up front, often understeer, particularly on higher speed bends. Very scary! Need quick reactions to grab it as the rear wheels are still pushing. You don't have this problem in a FWD. Of course there are RWDs that are very tame, like a 318 BMW, and FWDs that are quite tricky, like some French hot hatches, but the RWD equivalent (i.e. an S15) is even less idiot proof, and the 318 equivalent maybe a Corrola, more so. I am not an active NS member for the record! But I have had my share of experience with those things, and I wouldn't recommend them to anyone as a first car. Turbo or non-turbo makes little difference, the danger of those cars to the inexperienced is inherent - this I think highlights the lack of thought going into restrictions for P-platers.

And on what you said about it not being a problem years ago? The number of single vehicle accidents vs the population is decreasing. On top of that, old RWD barges (i.e. XB Falcon sedans) without 800HP small blocks tend to understeer at higher speed - I leant to drive in these sort of cars. As I said, RWD x understeer is worse than FWD.

Agree 100%.

You can kill yourself in anything if you drive like a goose.

No one disagrees with this. But the reality is, there will always be gease behind the wheel of cars, more so in their first few years of driving. The question 60 Minutes is asking is how can we minimise the resulting problems? The point of targeting specific cars is to try to idiot proof it as much as possible. You're still never going to completely get rid of people falling asleep at the wheel etc., but having 18yos hooning in Ford Focuses rather than Falcons will at least save SOME lives. Obviously exceptions will need to be made (i.e. vans, SUVs, and perhaps more idiot proof 4WDs and RWDs like a Mercedes C200 etc.).

[KURAUN]

Dude, a FWD is only more dangerous when it has a lot of power to induce too much torque steer or at speed (even then it's contentious). A FWD is actually a proven safer format for normal driving conditions. Please take no offence, do a bit of research and you will see.

no offence, have a drive of my golf and you will see its dangerous its on a 2litre turbo diesel but with nearly 400nm at the engine now and torque thats in a very small rev range can make it a handful

like i said I'm only basing this on cars ive driven and this car would have to be the most scary... like when driving in the wey and it starts torque steering at 100km/h, not fun

If you're talking about understeer in a RWD, that's a bit different. RWDs, especially those with heavy engines up front, often understeer, particularly on higher speed bends. Very scary! Need quick reactions to grab it as the rear wheels are still pushing. You don't have this problem in a FWD. Of course there are RWDs that are very tame, like a 318 BMW, and FWDs that are quite tricky, like some French hot hatches, but the RWD equivalent (i.e. an S15) is even less idiot proof, and the 318 equivalent maybe a Corrola, more so. I am not an active NS member for the record! But I have had my share of experience with those things, and I wouldn't recommend them to anyone as a first car. Turbo or non-turbo makes little difference, the danger of those cars to the inexperienced is inherent - this I think highlights the lack of thought going into restrictions for P-platers.

And on what you said about it not being a problem years ago? The number of single vehicle accidents vs the population is decreasing. On top of that, old RWD barges (i.e. XB Falcon sedans) without 800HP small blocks tend to understeer at higher speed - I leant to drive in these sort of cars. As I said, RWD x understeer is worse than FWD.

No one disagrees with this. But the reality is, there will always be gease behind the wheel of cars, more so in their first few years of driving. The question 60 Minutes is asking is how can we minimise the resulting problems? The point of targeting specific cars is to try to idiot proof it as much as possible. You're still never going to completely get rid of people falling asleep at the wheel etc., but having 18yos hooning in Ford Focuses rather than Falcons will at least save SOME lives. Obviously exceptions will need to be made (i.e. vans, SUVs, and perhaps more idiot proof 4WDs and RWDs like a Mercedes C200 etc.).

Really at the end of the day it comes down to driver skill, car (mods and part wear too) and conditions

no-one is a perfect driver and even professional drivers have accidents and can die ie: Peter Brock etc

at the end of day I'm just saying from cars I've driven, there might be much safer feeling cars that are fwd but i find golf scary at times

[Birds]

I'm sure Birds will have a bit more to say later when he gets home (thanks HEAPS for giving me a lift there/back and sticking around man, appreciated).

Bout time I added my 15 cents lol.

They ran out of seats for this thing, so only Ash went in for the forum. I sat in a room with a couple of other people watching a direct feed monitor. It panned out mostly as I expected, a small version of Q&A, with ex-hoons on one side and police/families on the other. Martin King was up front and centre with some slightly barbed questions, making it easy for police/families to attack some kids with absolutely no debating skills. ACA did seem a bit fairer than normal in their angle/spin, however this thing went for nearly 2 hours so they have plenty of footage to cut up and make rowdy roddy peepers out of everyone. Pissed myself laughing at the reporter who had been planted there to give her melodramatic/rehearsed sob story about how she and her crew were terrorised on Princes Hwy...I won't be surprised if that makes it to final cut.

All in all, a pretty useless debate. I lost count of the number of times I wanted to run in there and strangle someone for saying something stupid (read: everyone, bar a couple). I didn't envy Ash's position...it's hard to defend ex-hoons with good things to say and a bad way of saying them...it's also hard to side with anti-hoons who spruik the same old "you need to change your attitude, so change it" garbage that they've been trying since, I don't know, the invention of the automobile? The latter party seemed more interested in having a whinge and pointing the finger at an easy target than trying to come up with actual solutions. Anytime anyone suggested a potential solution, it was met with non-constructive criticism ("That won't work! We don't know why, but it just won't!").

Actually, what annoyed me most about the anti-hoon patrol, is that these ex-hoon kids were being asked what drove them (pun) to do what they did and what could be done to fix the issue for those who hadn't learnt their lesson...so the kids told them...then got shouted down for it? What more do you want, it's straight from the horse's mouth! LISTEN and ACT on that shit instead of getting offended by the truth and answers to questions you ask.

I lol'd at the planted reporter bringing up the fact that residents in the area were complaining about noisy cars on Princes Hwy, but were "too scared" (read: lazy, apathetic, non-existent?) to come along to the debate, fearing their lives. Also lol'd at the police excuse for incorrectly issued defects "That's just how it is, sometimes it happens." - wonder if this would have held up for hoons doing stupid things down Prinny.

[zebra]

Did you call out the Planted reporter Birds?

I applaud both Yours and Ash's efforts, I doubt I would've been able to bite my tounge in that situation.

[R31Nismoid]

Also lol'd at the police excuse for incorrectly issued defects "That's just how it is, sometimes it happens." - wonder if this would have held up for hoons doing stupid things down Prinny.

Ah ye i forgot about that one.

I am now chuckling at my desk

[Birds]

Did you call out the Planted reporter Birds?

I applaud both Yours and Ash's efforts, I doubt I would've been able to bite my tounge in that situation.

lol, nah everyone knew she was there and why she was there...the host made mention of it...but her bits were way too rehearsed for my liking and she was lying through her perfectly white teeth. I'm sure you'll see her parts on TV and know what I mean.

There were a lot of stupid arguments that I wanted to call out...probably a good thing they didn't seat me in there or I'd have been kicked out. I think Ash did a good job of keeping restrained, he managed to bring up the website a couple of times in a positive light, seperating our legal idea of fun from that of the Princes Hwy hoonies.

[Birds]

Oh yeah, another thing that pissed me off a little is these ex-hoon kids distinguishing between car enthusiasts and hoons...labelling themselves the former. This was always our way of seperating ourselves from the masses of idiots, but as I predicted, you now have these guys with prior records doing it too...which doesn't do us any favours. ACA didn't seem to care about the difference between the two anyway - it was pretty well noted throughout that any young people who cruise Princes Hwy in a modified car are there for no good, whether it be for burnouts or to create noise for local residents.

[Basti]

when is this airing?

[M34N]

Bout time I added my 15 cents lol.

They ran out of seats for this thing, so only Ash went in for the forum. I sat in a room with a couple of other people watching a direct feed monitor. It panned out mostly as I expected, a small version of Q&A, with ex-hoons on one side and police/families on the other. Martin King was up front and centre with some slightly barbed questions, making it easy for police/families to attack some kids with absolutely no debating skills. ACA did seem a bit fairer than normal in their angle/spin, however this thing went for nearly 2 hours so they have plenty of footage to cut up and make rowdy roddy peepers out of everyone. Pissed myself laughing at the reporter who had been planted there to give her melodramatic/rehearsed sob story about how she and her crew were terrorised on Princes Hwy...I won't be surprised if that makes it to final cut.

All in all, a pretty useless debate. I lost count of the number of times I wanted to run in there and strangle someone for saying something stupid (read: everyone, bar a couple). I didn't envy Ash's position...it's hard to defend ex-hoons with good things to say and a bad way of saying them...it's also hard to side with anti-hoons who spruik the same old "you need to change your attitude, so change it" garbage that they've been trying since, I don't know, the invention of the automobile? The latter party seemed more interested in having a whinge and pointing the finger at an easy target than trying to come up with actual solutions. Anytime anyone suggested a potential solution, it was met with non-constructive criticism ("That won't work! We don't know why, but it just won't!").

Actually, what annoyed me most about the anti-hoon patrol, is that these ex-hoon kids were being asked what drove them (pun) to do what they did and what could be done to fix the issue for those who hadn't learnt their lesson...so the kids told them...then got shouted down for it? What more do you want, it's straight from the horse's mouth! LISTEN and ACT on that shit instead of getting offended by the truth and answers to questions you ask.

I lol'd at the planted reporter bringing up the fact that residents in the area were complaining about noisy cars on Princes Hwy, but were "too scared" (read: lazy, apathetic, non-existent?) to come along to the debate, fearing their lives. Also lol'd at the police excuse for incorrectly issued defects "That's just how it is, sometimes it happens." - wonder if this would have held up for hoons doing stupid things down Prinny.

These points are what shits me most. It's explained that "hoons" need to change their attitude, but why is there no expectation for other people to change theirs about what is classified a "hoon"? Why is it OK to judge someone because of the car they drive, but if I judge someone on their religion/culture/sexuality/gender it's socially unacceptable? And they are supposed to listen to our concerns as a community? Yeah right.

Police won't change, anti-hoon squad won't change, dipshit hoons won't change. Anyone who makes a suggestion is laughed at and fobbed off. So really, this interview was just a way to vent and not get any actual solutions - we already have a Government full of bureaucrats for that. Good job, I look forward to the next police chase and "hoon" story on the news tonight and more questions to "what can be done to solve the problem?" and community outcry, while everyone sits on their hands and does SFA.

/rant

Edited April 4, 2012 by M34N

[Birds]

Well that's the long and short of it. This was just another ACA story - same shit, different setting. Any positive action needs to come from those who are actually in power, government officials and bodies, who unfortunately don't have a vested interest in solving the issue because it's a better revenue raiser and scapegoat than it is a serious community problem. As has been said in this thread, there are much more immediate and life threatening issues like suicide that we never hear about. But ACA would rather report on first world problems like an exhaust noise interrupting someone's viewing of The Biggest Loser.

Don't know when it will be airing Basti, probably next week sometime.

[NickR33]

buy a house near the biggest road in Australia (actually its longest national highway in the world).... complain about noisy cars...

bikes make waaay more noise than cars why are riders allowed to get away with so much more... I've never seen a modified bike getting stickered

[Basti]

bikes make waaay more noise than cars why are riders allowed to get away with so much more... I've never seen a modified bike getting caught

[Birds]

buy a house near the biggest road in Australia (actually its longest national highway in the world).... complain about noisy cars...

bikes make waaay more noise than cars why are riders allowed to get away with so much more... I've never seen a modified bike getting stickered

I agree with this, I think many cops would be afraid to even pull over a noisy Harley with a gang member sitting on it. That being said, lots of sports bikes do get defects for noise etc. and the RWC requirements are tighter than cars these days. You just don't hear much of it unless you are an active member of their community. I guess it's like most members of the public aren't aware of how big an issue it is for import enthusiasts putting up with defects and EPA notices.

Cars are much easier targets though, that's for sure. There's lots more of them and bikes aren't really seen as "hoons" / dangers to society. On the latter point, the reality is that, as Ash put it, defects are the only weapon police have against hoons who haven't actually broken the law yet...so they defect as many cars as they can.

[adis]

where did i once mention harder? i said felt more dangerous. Maybe you should learn to read properly

Either way you got no f*kin clue..

[KURAUN]

wow that cut so deep

[xALmoN]

i think what nick was trying to get at was, sure they are easier to drive and all, but ever tried saving yourself when a fwd spins? its near impossible.

that's the dangerous part. so much more predictable in a rwd. (except a soarer)