The Fuel Pump Thread

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Don't know why you would run the risk.. Walbros are like $200

Piecing this thing together over the last 4 years I need to put numbers onto paper, both pumps are bran new and would have seen less that 10 hours of use. Even if these pumps dont have a long life on e85 Id say ill get a tune and weekend driving for 3 mounths out of them, then its back in the shed for winter upgrades.

[GTRPSI]

Have a pump fail, lean out the engine......whats the engine going to cost you and whats the pump worth again?

Sell the pumps, recoup some money, buy walbro.

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I have told myself the poor man pays twice so I don't know why I'm even considering it tbh..

Reputable sellers for internal/external E pumps?

[XRATED]

Weldon USA.

:-)

[GTR_JOEY]

PM Scotty NM

[GTRPSI]

Just found this interesting clip on the Fuelab 42402 pumps with the 52902 electronic regulators, nice to see a integrated package now, just set the base fuel pressure and walk away, no fiddling with fuel pump controllers or ECU, no more hot fuel for systems without a pump controller.

[scotty nm35]

That is well worth taking 3 minutes to watch, thanks Peter.

Interesting seeing the foaming that happens, mainly at low tank levels. It's part of the reason I was looking at the Holley Hydramat intank, rather than a surge setup. Not sure I can get it to work with the twin Walbros of course, they seem to only use AN fittings.

[GTRPSI]

Thats very interesting Scotty, never knew it existed, looks very promising.

Back to traditional fuel surge tanks and the fuelab clip, the air issue certainly opened my eyes and had me rethink surge tank designs. (and your mat discovery brings out feed design improvements)

Most surge tanks have the main pump feed outlet/s down the bottom, on the very top a return to the feed tank and a little down from the top the return line from the fuel pressure reg and tank feed input.

I was thinking to maybe get something else made up....

A tall cylinder, all inlets one one side entering at 45 degrees, pump outlet/s right opposite also at 45 degrees.

The idea being that anything entering all comes from one side of the cylinder to get the fuel rotating in the cylinder, in effect creating a vortex, much like those swirl pot air/oil separators.

Main fuel pump feed at the very bottom with its fitting facing the on coming fuel swirl, fuel reg return also at the bottom going into the direction of swirl (and helping it swirl), tank feed nearer to the top in the direction of the swirl (again helping swirl) and only the top fitting in the center top as the tank return.

My thinking is it should reduce bubbles to a minimum in the surge tank.

Most surge tank designs ive seen have the fuel pressure reg return line and tank feed pretty high up on them, fittings are all bang smack in the middle not helping to get a swirl happening.

In tank return would need to be run and hose clamped to the floor to reduce bubbles into the in tank feed pump, which in turn would reduce surge tank bubbles.

What are your thoughts on this without getting into E85 compatible in tank foams?

Or an i just being a little (or very) anal about it?

Edited August 17, 2015 by GTRPSI

[burn4005]

I'm planning an intank system for an bnr34 with a walbro 460 and a Holley hydramat. Probably 11 inch square but I'm yet to get under the car to measure up what fits best in the bottom of the driver's side saddle. Also using a Sard jet pump sucking from the other side of the saddle as its venturi ratio is better than the stock one, especially coupled with the flow of a 460 pump. When I've got the stock one out of the car I'll test the flow multiplicatio performance of both at various rail return rates and decide which to use. Outlet of the jetpump+rail return flow will flow straight back onto the hydramat.

If this isn't enough to keep the surge away on hard right handers at high injector DC (minimal return to tank so venturi pump flow will be low) I'm thinking a low pressure lift pump passing fuel from the passenger saddle onto the hydramat on the driver's side. I am quite optimistic about the potential of the hydramat without this, a 11 square inch pickup patch is quite a lot of area.

I hate boot mounted fuel systems so I'm giving this a shot. I have 100hz logging of fuel pressure and fuel pressure and delta afr engine protection so I'm happy to give it a try. Goal is a 430+awkw circuit capable car. 9l Hi octane sump and accusump takes care of the business end.

Edited August 17, 2015 by burn4005

[scotty nm35]

Thats very interesting Scotty, never knew it existed, looks very promising.

Back to traditional fuel surge tanks and the fuelab clip, the air issue certainly opened my eyes and had me rethink surge tank designs. (and your mat discovery brings out feed design improvements)

Most surge tanks have the main pump feed outlet/s down the bottom, on the very top a return to the feed tank and a little down from the top the return line from the fuel pressure reg and tank feed input.

I was thinking to maybe get something else made up....

A tall cylinder, all inlets one one side entering at 45 degrees, pump outlet/s right opposite also at 45 degrees.

The idea being that anything entering all comes from one side of the cylinder to get the fuel rotating in the cylinder, in effect creating a vortex, much like those swirl pot air/oil separators.

Main fuel pump feed at the very bottom with its fitting facing the on coming fuel swirl, fuel reg return also at the bottom going into the direction of swirl (and helping it swirl), tank feed nearer to the top in the direction of the swirl (again helping swirl) and only the top fitting in the center top as the tank return.

My thinking is it should reduce bubbles to a minimum in the surge tank.

Most surge tank designs ive seen have the fuel pressure reg return line and tank feed pretty high up on them, fittings are all bang smack in the middle not helping to get a swirl happening.

In tank return would need to be run and hose clamped to the floor to reduce bubbles into the in tank feed pump, which in turn would reduce surge tank bubbles.

What are your thoughts on this without getting into E85 compatible in tank foams?

Or an i just being a little (or very) anal about it?

I think you're on the money with that design, not even sure the ethanol foams up like 98, but anything you can do to make sure no air bubbles find their way to the pump...

Logging fuel pressure is the key like Burn is doing. It's the only way to see whats happening at the track. Let us know how the Hydramat goes, I will likely be giving it a go very soon.

[GTRPSI]

Just to add to this thread for Scotty....

On Saturday i was with Danny (Barrys mate/half brother) from JAK mototrsworks and we got talking about the new fuelab pump and pressure reg with the 1 wire connection as they just fitted it to a Supra.

A Melb tuner mentioned they noted issues controlling fuel pressure bounce or stability with that pump/reg setup.

I wonder if its the pump control being too aggressive with the large pump or that it needs a (or a few) dampner/s in the line.

Just thought id bring it up to your attention as your always playing with fuel setups.....

Edited August 30, 2015 by GTRPSI

[Roy]

I suggest people look inside their tanks, I know the baffles in a 32 tank around the pick up will stop you from running a hydramat

[scotty nm35]

Just to add to this thread for Scotty....

On Saturday i was with Danny (Barrys mate/half brother) from JAK mototrsworks and we got talking about the new fuelab pump and pressure reg with the 1 wire connection as they just fitted it to a Supra.

A Melb tuner mentioned they noted issues controlling fuel pressure bounce or stability with that pump/reg setup.

I wonder if its the pump control being too aggressive with the large pump or that it needs a (or a few) dampner/s in the line.

Just thought id bring it up to your attention as your always playing with fuel setups.....

Not the first time I have heard of fuel line hammer, especially running large injectors. As there is no such dampener I have found for large diameter AN lines, I was either thinking to make or modify an existing plumbing anti hammer device for the job, or just run rubber lines which take the pulses out. Only seems to be an issue with teflon or hardlines.

I suggest people look inside their tanks, I know the baffles in a 32 tank around the pick up will stop you from running a hydramat

Yep, even the Stagea tank would need modification to fit the smaller mats in. I don't imagine any modern car would have room around the pickup.

[GTRPSI]

Not the first time I have heard of fuel line hammer, especially running large injectors. As there is no such dampener I have found for large diameter AN lines, I was either thinking to make or modify an existing plumbing anti hammer device for the job, or just run rubber lines which take the pulses out. Only seems to be an issue with teflon or hardlines.

There are dampners that thread into fuel rails (just was looking at it on my sons S2000)

Would be pretty simple to drill and thread 2 into a fuel rail, one for the front bank and one for the rear bank between the reg return point on the rail.

[scotty nm35]

There are dampners that thread into fuel rails (just was looking at it on my sons S2000)

Would be pretty simple to drill and thread 2 into a fuel rail, one for the front bank and one for the rear bank between the reg return point on the rail.

Are they massive, like the plumbing ones?

I have seen fuel hammer that bad it changes afr's dramatically, as have a few other tuners I have spoken to.

Do you have a link to the ones you found?

[GTRPSI]

I just popped the bonnet to take a closer look on the sons S2000.

FPR on the right (vacuum hose connected to it) Yellowish/white thing on the left is the fuel inlet line with dampner.

Another angle where you can see a banjo fuel in fitting under it.

Im thinking this is one version on one car, there could be others that dont use the banjo and can simply thread straight into the fuel rail as a stand alone unit, using the fuel rail as a fuel manifold.

Otherwise leave the banjo line in blocked or use a hollow spacer in its place, simply drill and tap a hole with thread into the fuel rail, mount one on the front half for the first 3 injectors and another one on the rear for the last 3 in twin entry fuel rail situations.

Or in other words, dont let fuel enter through them, leave them free on the rail to absorb pulses, let the fuel in as per normal so you can run whatever AN fittings you want without any restriction.

Edit, i wouldnt use them on the ends of the fuel rail with a banjo to let the fuel in as i think they would be too restrictive to fuel flow on high Hp situations, then again you could drill out the bango bolt holes for more flow.

Edited August 31, 2015 by GTRPSI

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Just to inform people i purchased a Denso intank E85 compattable pump as per my tuner. Will be installing it sometime this month so all should be good now I will be getting rid of the 040!

[DJBarnstar]

Just to inform people i purchased a Denso intank E85 compattable pump as per my tuner. Will be installing it sometime this month so all should be good now I will be getting rid of the 040!

What power level is said pump able to handle please?

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260lph. Only has to feed my 2ltr surge and then a external feeds my rail. Will be more than enough, not sure what it would do on its own though.

[mr skidz]

Has anyone use one of these to stop heating the fuel with big fuel pumps it's a fuel pump speed controller.

It's different to the ken bell voltage regulator as this 1 just pulses to feed 12 volt only

Edited December 9, 2015 by mr skidz