The Fuel Pump Thread

[mr skidz]

Hey guys,

Having problems with my LM with fuel system and having a read through this post it seems that I need a fuel speed regulator. Its running a Haltech Pro on e85 flex fuel with a nismo intank and 044 under the floor with just under

360kw atw, I have just bought the car so finding out all the gremlins.

There is no speed controller for the 044 and its running flat out and definitely overheating the fuel and the car is stalling and the 044 makes a racket when putting around town (especially since its been getting up over 36 degrees here).

Does haltech made a plug in controller or how did the Aeromotive unit turn out?

I'll be asking my tuner this week if there's any outputs that can be used from the haltech to trigger the controller otherwise I'll have to use RPM as a trigger I'll have no choice.

PM me at the end of the week and I'll let you know what he reckons

Edited January 12, 2016 by mr skidz

[Pal]

Thanks mate.

[Pal]

decided as its 50km to closest e85 outlet and only get 200km to tank on it i am going to disable my flex fuel and go for a straight 98 tune, also will remove the 044 booster fuel pump which will solve all my problems, still have around 300kw so still not too bad.

Ill reconnect it once e85 get closer to my house and redo my fuel setup to suit.

[PSI086]

Looking at replacing my current 2 x 044's with a proflow surge tank that incorporates internal pumps. It comes as a kit with these which I presume are just a rebranded walbro style pump as the aem, aeroflow, etc pumps all look identical. Would ideally like to run 2 x walbro 460's but I'm not sure they will fit the hanger in the tank. Any feedback on the proflow pumps would be great

Edited February 10, 2016 by PSI086

[kingtube69]

Looks similar to my Walbro 460 which has done me well. I don't think you will be able to fit two in the tank without a custom mount for them as thee hanger is quite narrow.

[PSI086]

[iruvyouskyrine]

Dual 460's is an absolute shitload of fuel. Any reason for wanting twin pumps? If it were me i would run a single and then just buy a pressure sensor with left over money and let my ECU keep an eye on fuel pressure. It will let you know if a pump is on it's way out, where a dual set up one many be failing but the second pump will mask it which is dangerous.

[PSI086]

I could always run a single 460 as that will fit the carrier. Currently I'm running 1 x 044 constantly and the other is staged to come on at 10psi. Car is on E85 making close to 400rwkw through an auto. What sort of power is a 460 rated to?

[Dale FZ1]

2 x 044 in-tank? How difficult to get them both down that narrow slot?

I'd be a bit surprised if a single Walbro 460 would hit the mark with 400rwkW and be comfortable with doing it. But then you'd be looking at wiring, lines, reg, and filter setup, IMO.

[scotty nm35]

A single 460 should flow 430-450kw at stock base pressure, in a manual, on e85. That would be a much better option than those $50 Chinese e85 pumps everyone is flogging. ^^ Worst case you could lower the base pressure a little?

I am about to try the 325L short Areoflow version in a customers car so I will let you know if we have issues, I just wish the Walbro 460L would fit in that one. I would prefer to run a Walbro 255 than the Aeroflow, it will likely run out of flow on e85, but at least I know they are long term ethanol safe.

Stay away from twin pumps unless you have some way of knowing one has failed, especially with generic pumps like those Proflow/Aeroflow/Raceworks etc. The warranty won't replace your engine, only the pump...

[sneakey pete]

guys its pumps internal to the surge tank not the fuel tank.
Also that is one big f**king surge tank pictured.

single 460 starts to run out of puff around 400-450kw on E85, so particularly if you're running high boost i can understand wanting a pair.

Still personally leaning towards a fuelab for my new setup

[The Mafia]

Hey everyone, after doing my bench testing with E85, these were the results. I was going to post them but must have forgot:

Walbro 460lph All at 65psi on E85 (This is the "267" model pump)

13.5v (this is the normal operating voltage) = 340lph (17 amps)

14v = 360lph (18 amps)

16v = 420lph (20 amps)

18v = 480lph (22.5 amps)

You'll find these values are nearly the same (maybe 20-30lph lower) with gasoline, and the pump draws about 2 amps more at all voltages.

I would have liked to do more tests but I had to hurry up and install the voltage booster into the car.

Works well, I have the booster set at 16.2 volts to come on with the conditions 5800rpm & 16psi of boost. Needs to meet both in order to switch.

otherwise, low speed for idle and cruise, and medium (booster on, but no boost which is 14.0v on the dot, 3500rpm & 5psi)

Edited February 11, 2016 by The Mafia

[PSI086]

Running 4bar fuel pressure so a single 460 will most likely be on it's limit by the sounds of it. I was considering setting up a fuel pressure sensor anyway so I could always set that up alongside the current afr engine protection. The pumps also have check valves installed down the line so if one fails there will still be pressure.

I'm still not sold on the proflow pumps as they are probably just like a ebay knockoff 044. Might be worth modifying the hanger if necessary to fit a pair of 460's

Has anyone got any feedback on the Holley dominator pumps? This is also another option if I wanted to retain my current surge tank

[The Mafia]

The Holley dominator 1800 pumps have a pair of Walbro 255lph pumps inside them. So fairly straight forward.

Not a bad pump either. Plenty of flow for 450awkw

[sneakey pete]

Did you do a walkthrough/writeup on your pump setup yet Jono or waiting until you've got it all run in/kinks ironed out etc?

[The Mafia]

There isn't much at the moment but I can tell you what i have done so far:

1. Installed Walbro 460lph

2. Installed voltage booster. (12v, 14v, 16.2v)
3. Billet Fuel Filter

4. Radium Jet pump / Venturi in the factory position

5. Upgraded to a turbosmart 1200 FPR.

6. Factory fuel rail having ends cut off and -6 JIC male ends welded on.
7. Plate / Coat the factory Fuel rail again for protection.

8. Mount Turbosmart 1200 FPR in the factory FPR position.
9. Eventually I will drop off the hard lines and put Ethanol proof ones on.

Fairly basic upgrades, and a fuel system that will be able to handle 500awkw with a single fuel pump.

I'm not worried about the dangers of leaning as I have my ECU set up to "Fuel pressure referenced" mode. Each injector pulse calculation is done based on a reading from the fuel pressure sensor I have fitted. From here, I have set limits so that the car cannot lean out.

The only way I can do damage leaning it is if one single injector decides it wants to block.

Edited February 12, 2016 by The Mafia

[scotty nm35]

I'm not worried about the dangers of leaning as I have my ECU set up to "Fuel pressure referenced" mode. Each injector pulse calculation is done based on a reading from the fuel pressure sensor I have fitted. From here, I have set limits so that the car cannot lean out.

The only way I can do damage leaning it is if one single injector decides it wants to block.

Having the fuel map reliant on one sensor would stress me out a little. Perhaps if there were two pressure sensors in comparison I would be happier, but after working on electronics all my life I have little faith in anything electrical long term.

Will you be using wideband correction or protection also?

[Ben C34]

Having the fuel map reliant on one sensor would stress me out a little. Perhaps if there were two pressure sensors in comparison I would be happier, but after working on electronics all my life I have little faith in anything electrical long term.

Will you be using wideband correction or protection also?

But you rely on one map or maf, or one wideband don't you? One cas etc...

[The Mafia]

I've been running it for a year now, no issues.

At idle, I have wound the pressure down to 220kpa, AFR stayed the same. Wound the pressure up to 400kpa at idle, AFR stayed the same

I will look at making a table though.

I liek to just drive and let the ECU do the watching / protecting. No guages except temp gets looked at.

[scotty nm35]

At idle I wouldn't expect too much change, but I had the reg vac line pop off at the track a few times in the Evo, I did the whole track day at 32psi on United ethanol before realising it was running 16:1 at full noise, all because I forgot to cable tie it.

Talking with my tuner about why the engine didn't melt, he tells me the exhaust temps actually drop off after stoich on e85, unlike petrol that gets hotter. Perhaps there is less to worry about these days on ethanol anyway? I know it has saved my Stagea engine more times than I can count, like when the wastegate open hose split and it ran over 60psi.

I'm about to fit a Link Fury, should be able to run all these sensors and protection soon, including 4.9 wideband and flex, just struggling to find a tuner that wants to put the time into setting it up. One of those things you need to do yourself I guess.