The Great R33 Intercooler Dilemma

[Pr0x1mity]

So, like many of you I have an R33. Like many of you I have a return flow (Cooling pro stealth to be specific).

Like many of you, I dream of 300+ Kw. I have the supporting mods for it, I have the turbo for it. I have a good tuner, good injectors, good ECU and a healthy engine.

What do?

There seems to be four options.

1)

The easiest option. A return flow cooler kit. Usually Blitz or Cooling pro. Both appear to get massive pressure drops at the core and tao from hyper gear recommends not running them for anything past 250kw (I think it was 250??)

2)

Top to bottom style. No off the shelf kts for a skyline but requires minimal piping to fit. Piping is shorter than return flow. But how is the pressure drop? is it better? I have read a few good things, but still not a lot of info.

3)

A "same side" cooler with one end take with inlet and outlet. I imagine the end tank has two separate chambers? This means that the air has to go all the way through the cooler twice effectively to go out the outlet?

4) *No image*

Home made return flow. 2x 90 degree bends at the far side and a long pipe. Better flowing? longer piping? gooooood? bad?

What is the best NO CUT option for those of us who just can't cut up a daily that won't pass an engineers cert (Damn air bag!)

[scotty nm35]

Greg made 400kw on the Blitz return flow, on e85. I can't see why you would need anything bigger than that for your output, but obviously a full 600 x 300 with custom return piping behind the cooler, will outflow all the ones you pictured.

[GTSBoy]

Your option 1 style coolers really just need to spend more time on the design and size of the end tank. Turning the air around and distributing it across the core, or gathering it up and cleanly getting it into the outlet pipe (depending on which way the air is flowing to it) takes more than the bullshit sort of tank that most manufacturers just throw on there. Some internal turning vanes and a bit more internal volume would go a long way. But as Scotty says above...plenty of people have made plenty of power using them. A quality core is still a key requirement....maybe some of the bad results are a result of shitty cores between the tanks.

Option 2 style coolers are a very bad idea. They have very poor thermal efficiency due to the short tubes. There is also low velocity through those tubes (which goes further toward lowering the thermal efficiency). But the low velocity and large number of tubes at least tend to give them a lower pressure drop. End tank design is still a problem on these though because the incoming air tends to want to crowd the far end of the tank and hence flow favours the tubes at the far end too. You get less utilisation of the core than you expect.

Option 3 style coolers have the opposite problem. They have few tubes, so high velocity and better thermal efficiency. The utilisation of the core is much better because the air does not have to spread out so much to access the available core tubes. But the pressure drop is high, and the u turn at the far end still sucks.

Edited November 26, 2015 by GTSBoy

[zebra]

Greg made 400kw on the Blitz return flow, on e85. I can't see why you would need anything bigger than that for your output, but obviously a full 600 x 300 with custom return piping behind the cooler, will outflow all the ones you pictured.

Yep plenty of people make good power with the Blitz ones.

The China ones seem to struggle

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Bang an IAT and measure the temp going into the motor and also measure the boost drop.

I found with China Ling Long cores they don't tend to cool so well, however on e85 that isn't too much of a concern provided your IATs are under 60 degrees or so.

I didn't find much of a power difference when my IAT shot past 50 degrees. On pump, high IAT would be knock city

[scotty nm35]

On pump, high IAT would be knock city

Shite fuel. Can't even stand the smell of it anymore.

[Kinkstaah]

Yep, I made 400 (+? it is an auto after all) on the Blitz return flow. Which, from the outside looks exactly like the cooling pro one.

But as mentioned, it could be very different internally. Or, perhaps there's a correlation between people who choose cheap intercoolers and other setup issues or corners cut elsewhere. nfi.

Also yes, while I used E85 in my setup with the Blitz, it made well, well, well over 300+ on 98. Enough that the intercooler didn't even think to become a restriction at all. I never pushed the boost or timing on the 98 tune, it was there just to drive around on when E85 wasn't available.

Point being though, "you can't make more than 250 on a return flow intercooler" is false.

[colourclassic]

I had 270rwkw on my Cooling Pro return flow. IIRC the MAP sensor showed a very flat boost curve once 20psi had been reached, and very little pressure drop.

[JezR31]

Stock GTR cooler, it will do 300kw+ easy and they're cheap. Going to have to change your piping around though.

[jet_r31]

I did notice on Staos pictures for his 600x300x100 etc..that the fins inside the tank looked f**king shit and bent and not made well causing a restriction

But on the china 100mm i have here and and half the worlds 10/9 sec and 8 sec vl turbos..the fins looked well made and straight not causing a bad flow path

cheers

darren

[hypergear]

Green Boost pressure before cooler, rest boost pressure aftercooler.

[hypergear]

But if Blitz or JJR return flow cooler kit is purchased or a must have for road legal purposes, I did engineer a turbocharger for my self during time been, or whom ever in my shoe.

http://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/55845-rb25-turbo-upgrade-all-dyno-results/page-52#entry7503629

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

there you go, data is there can't deny it

I say invest in a decent FMIC, I'm going to throw my HDi China Domestic Market IC out for a Plazmaman one sometime next year once I get the new turbo setup on oootttsss

Maybe say goodbye to the screamer too..

[V28VX37]

Trust turn flow should flow 300rwkw on E85:

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Trust turn flow should flow 300rwkw on E85:

those end tanks look kind of restrictive

[kingtube69]

My Blitz made 289kw yesterday - Told it was a restriction because the pipes run on the hotside of the engine. I would probably end up going Plazmaman in the next couple of months to be honest.

[V28VX37]

those end tanks look kind of restrictive

Made 285rwkw on BP98 without airbox lid on my car so I'm pretty sure it'll crack 300 with E85.

I think there's a power level where return flow coolers become restrictive and it's better to go FFP and a GTR style cooler - I'm just not sure what that level is

[Ke55pig]

Has anyone found the cooling pro 600x300x76 restriction point ive hit the 350rwkw roller dyno mark and been told my cooler could be my restriction up top any used one and had issues

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

I think you guys need to measure an intercooler's ability to cool down the charged air as well as pressure drop.

Measuring the out put power based on an intercooler is not a good way of determining it's efficiency.

[hypergear]

JJR's Cooling pro return flow was the hottest out of all, which had to be cooled down after each dyno run, and it took quite while to cool down on front the the fan.

And out of my readings, Trent was measuring the readings on the ecu that but I didn't record exact number. Takashi 600x300x61mm had the hottest discharge temp, while the Takashi 100mm, Blitz, and PWR were about the same.