HKS GTIII-2530 bearing type

[Meap]

Hi guys, new to the forum and still trying to figure out how everything works, so sorry if this has been answered before.

I've been looking into turbo upgrades and saw that the HKS GTIII-SS turbos are thrust bearing turbos, which drew me away from them.

This had me wondering however, are the GTIII-2530's also thrust bearing turbos or are they ball bearing? I can't seem to find an answer on HKS' website.

[r32-25t]

They’d be thrust bearing as all hks turbos are based on Mitsubishi turbos now 

[robbo_rb180]

Garrett G series or GTX Gen2.........

Who even buys the Japanese brand stuff anymore its not 2008........

[r32-25t]

On 29/1/2022 at 5:59 PM, robbo_rb180 said:

Garrett G series or GTX Gen2.........

Who even buys the Japanese brand stuff anymore its not 2008........

Americans 

[joshuaho96]

Thrust bearing vs ball bearing in a small turbo around the size of the GT2860 is supposedly not a simple trade, supposedly ball bearings have lower shaft speed limits than journal bearings. Of course ball bearing has far superior transient performance because there's a lot less oil causing drag in the center section: 

 

Turbos are more than just their bearings, it's important to keep in mind what their compressor and turbine maps look like. I wouldn't bother with the GTIII-2530 when the GTX2860 gen 2 exists and isn't HKS-taxed but the GTIII-SS in particular has no equivalent on the market as far as I can tell. That's a very small turbo that doesn't go much higher than 20 psi at high RPM in an RB26 before the 0.54 A/R turbine chokes it. R34 ceramic turbos are probably the most responsive low mount twin turbos out there still but I didn't want something that could blow up like the stock ceramics.

[Meap]

Thanks for the quick responses guys! The Garrett turbo's do indeed look a lot more appealing.

I know this might seem silly but I'm a sucker for turbo flutter noises, which is why I'm not keen on running thrust bearing turbo's, since to my understanding you have to run a BOV on thrust bearing turbo's, whereas on ball bearing turbo's you can run no BOV without any real issues?

Or is this statement incorrect?

[Duncan]

Yes, that is true that a ball bearing turbo is likely to take that treatment better than a thrust bearing turbo (particularly compared to some of the old 270o thrust bearing turbos). I guess you don't need anyone to tell you it's not ideal either way though

[hypergear]

In lots of cases you will find the turbine wheel explodes due to level of centripetal forces pulling against their tip blades before the ball bearing cartridges actually collapse. In Journal bearing system that turbo would be long gone due to thrust bearing wear before the wheels reach their limitations. For majority of built engines operating at 30~50psi they need to run on ball bearing cartridges. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by hypergear

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Turbo God has spoken, hard to argue that.

[Mbest12]

Unless GCG decides to start offering custom orders of the GTX2860 Gen II's, it appears that Garrett has stopped making them. I'm being told that only the 2867s are being made. If my desire is to remain in the twin turbo configuration, are the GTIII-2530s still worth considering?

[hypergear]

I still have Garrett parts to build GTX2860 if interested. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by hypergear

[Mbest12]

I actually already purchased these turbos. Let's hope that they can back up HKS's claims! 

[joshuaho96]

On 7/10/2022 at 8:42 AM, Mbest12 said:

I actually already purchased these turbos. Let's hope that they can back up HKS's claims! 

Sits somewhere between the GTIII-RS and GTIII-SS, one thing a dyno chart can't show you is the effect of bearing drag on transient response.

[Mbest12]

 

On 7/11/2022 at 5:17 AM, joshuaho96 said:

Sits somewhere between the GTIII-RS and GTIII-SS, one thing a dyno chart can't show you is the effect of bearing drag on transient response.

Are you testing these then? Or currently running them? I'm trying them out because they were easy to source while I'm living in Japan.  Going through an engine rebuild and I needed turbos rather quickly. We're either going to be these or the Tomei T550B kit

[joshuaho96]

On 7/15/2022 at 1:51 AM, Mbest12 said:

 

Are you testing these then? Or currently running them? I'm trying them out because they were easy to source while I'm living in Japan.  Going through an engine rebuild and I needed turbos rather quickly. We're either going to be these or the Tomei T550B kit

This is from UP Garage in Washington, they seem to like the HKS turbos for some reason. They reliably claim that the GTIII-SS is the most responsive turbo you can get for a factory bolt-on twin turbo. The trade is the least amount of power you can get from any turbo other than the factory ceramics. I also saw this chart from someone that ran the GTIII-RS turbos in Japan:

I think it's pretty fair to say most people here really don't like the HKS GTIII turbos though, they are a pretty old design compared to something like an EFR7163. While new turbo tech helps a lot if you're a weird person like me and you've mentally put yourself in the design corner of "must be bolt-on turbo" and "must be as small as possible to reduce turbo lag" then HKS is pretty much the only game in town now other than the tried and true Garrett options sold by GCG Japan and others. Almost nobody has experience with the Tomei T550Bs, I recommend asking Tommy Farrell as I think he's had some customer cars use those turbos. 

[Mbest12]

Thanks for the insight! I think you and I are similar in regards to bolt on options. There are better turbos out there in the form of a single, but I prefer to keep the form factor and appearance as close to stock as possible. Also, it's way easier to work with certain Japanese Nissan dealerships if things look mostly stock. A lot less questions asked and a lot less refusals to perform basic maintenance. 

[r32-25t]

Boys boys, don’t believe that bullshit or the skewed vision to make yourself feel better about your purchase. They’re junk and not even equal to the old dash series of turbos from Garrett 

[joshuaho96]

On 7/15/2022 at 7:50 PM, r32-25t said:

Boys boys, don’t believe that bullshit or the skewed vision to make yourself feel better about your purchase. They’re junk and not even equal to the old dash series of turbos from Garrett 

I still have a hard time explaining away this post, maybe some day I'll be able to get my car on a dyno with a proper tune to figure out if this is remotely achievable:

[Mbest12]

On 7/16/2022 at 11:50 AM, r32-25t said:

Boys boys, don’t believe that bullshit or the skewed vision to make yourself feel better about your purchase. They’re junk and not even equal to the old dash series of turbos from Garrett 

My local tuner recommended the kit to me knowing that are many other healthy options. Due to my time constraints, I made the purchase. 

[BK]

On 16/07/2022 at 2:12 PM, Mbest12 said:

My local tuner recommended the kit to me knowing that are many other healthy options. Due to my time constraints, I made the purchase. 

Do you have a race meeting coming up or something ?