Stoptech Brakes

[Roy]

The ST40 is the same for the F40 caliper for most of their 332mm rotor kits, which is the same as the Brembo GTR which is 44mm and 38mm pistons

[LotusGTR]

Troy, you've said berfore that whilst there is nothing wrong with R33 Brembos there is nothing particularly special about them and you wonder why people ask for so much money for them. So if the ST set up is like the Brembo GTR then I'll spend $2.5k and get some of those, and not the $6k ST want........

Unless, there is more to the ST proposition, or I'm over simplifying??

[Beer Baron]

he means they have the same piston size. which is what you were asking? they are not the same caliper as GTR brembos.

[djr81]

If you want to compare the Stoptech calliper to a Brembo then the F40/F50 series would be more appropriate.

There are any number of elements to what constitutes a good callipers, including:

Appropriate piston area.

Stiffness.

Weight.

Size ie not too fat.

Mounting type.

Pad avialability.

Pad size.

Resistance to heat transfer from the pads to the fluid.

Price etc etc.

The Brembo callipers as fitted to Nissans do not offer much more than the Sumitomo callipers other than a brand name & bolting up to a larger rotor.

You also need to consider that when buying a complete set of brakes/callipers/rotors/pad etc that the pads & the rotors should be regarded as consumables. Basically if you aren't going through a number of sets of pads per year & changing rotors relatively often then you probably don't need a brake upgrade. Brakes are one of the least influential elements in setting a good lap time at a sprint day or similar.

[LotusGTR]

he means they have the same piston size. which is what you were asking? they are not the same caliper as GTR brembos.

BB, yes, mostly, point taken. Would be good to know why ST are better if they are.

[LotusGTR]

If you want to compare the Stoptech calliper to a Brembo then the F40/F50 series would be more appropriate.

There are any number of elements to what constitutes a good callipers, including:

Appropriate piston area.

Stiffness.

Weight.

Size ie not too fat.

Mounting type.

Pad avialability.

Pad size.

Resistance to heat transfer from the pads to the fluid.

Price etc etc.

The Brembo callipers as fitted to Nissans do not offer much more than the Sumitomo callipers other than a brand name & bolting up to a larger rotor.

You also need to consider that when buying a complete set of brakes/callipers/rotors/pad etc that the pads & the rotors should be regarded as consumables. Basically if you aren't going through a number of sets of pads per year & changing rotors relatively often then you probably don't need a brake upgrade. Brakes are one of the least influential elements in setting a good lap time at a sprint day or similar.

Thanks for that. I'm sure I'm not spending money that efficiently when it comes to lap times etc. But a new / solid brake set up that is 100% reliable, that future proofs power upgrades, and isn't on its ear most of the time and is 'nice' to use are all good thing.

[Duncan]

sorry I missed that question..... yes I was talking about the gt3 4 spot pistons, we are running them on standard 33/34 gtr discs (well 2 peice dba5000, but they are standard size). Just a dogbone adapter required. Calipers are available at a reasonable price from porsche (surprise!) and a wide range of pad compounds.

[Roy]

Nick the other thing with the Stoptech and aftermarket F40/50 Brembos is that they have external brake line bridges that means that some of ht ecoolant is in the cooler air. On the likes of the Nissan GTR Brembos all the fluid lines are internal to the caliper so subject to the far higher caliper temps which means fluid more readily boils.

But it is a game of inches. The other beauty of the aftermarket calipers is that once you have them you can take them from car to car, or if you end up with so much grunt in a street car, your straight line acceleration is better then most tin top race cars, you have way less corner speed as its a street car, and you typicall weight at least 200kgsx more then a tin top race car so you may need to end up with brakes which some think are ridiculous. So with the radial mount style caliper you can grab a set of 380mm rotors and just get the appropriate mount and the caliper will be functional on that rotor as well.

But, i do think that if you are going to go big dollar aftermarket you really cant jsutify going any smaller then 355mm unless you are one of the GTSt/S13/14/15 brigade where a 332-343mm will be about right.

I think Ronin 09 on this forum has about the best set up you can get. He runs 355 x 36mm thick rotors with the AP CP5555 6 pot. The rotor is some 4mm thicker then most rotors with 72 vane so the thing cools like an absolute champion. COmbined with the CP caliper which has relatively small piston area and relies on the increase in rotor diam for an increase in brake torque. Brand new i can get you a similar kit for about $3500 . Beauty of using the CP5555 caliper is that you can make do with std rear brakes just with good rotor and pads...and if you ever stumble accross some well priced GTR rears then just grab them.

[LotusGTR]

Nick the other thing with the Stoptech and aftermarket F40/50 Brembos is that they have external brake line bridges that means that some of ht ecoolant is in the cooler air. On the likes of the Nissan GTR Brembos all the fluid lines are internal to the caliper so subject to the far higher caliper temps which means fluid more readily boils.

But it is a game of inches. The other beauty of the aftermarket calipers is that once you have them you can take them from car to car, or if you end up with so much grunt in a street car, your straight line acceleration is better then most tin top race cars, you have way less corner speed as its a street car, and you typicall weight at least 200kgsx more then a tin top race car so you may need to end up with brakes which some think are ridiculous. So with the radial mount style caliper you can grab a set of 380mm rotors and just get the appropriate mount and the caliper will be functional on that rotor as well.

But, i do think that if you are going to go big dollar aftermarket you really cant jsutify going any smaller then 355mm unless you are one of the GTSt/S13/14/15 brigade where a 332-343mm will be about right.

I think Ronin 09 on this forum has about the best set up you can get. He runs 355 x 36mm thick rotors with the AP CP5555 6 pot. The rotor is some 4mm thicker then most rotors with 72 vane so the thing cools like an absolute champion. COmbined with the CP caliper which has relatively small piston area and relies on the increase in rotor diam for an increase in brake torque. Brand new i can get you a similar kit for about $3500 . Beauty of using the CP5555 caliper is that you can make do with std rear brakes just with good rotor and pads...and if you ever stumble accross some well priced GTR rears then just grab them.

Troy, how you educate and confuse my tiny mind.......Good point about the radial mounts. Both ST and CSC are radials. CSC also has external brake line bridges. The APs sound and interesting option though. Certainly better on the budget. I might need to talk to you as right now I have too many options, and in some cases I'm missing information. Can't compute.

[Duncan]

speaking of well priced gtr rears, I have a set of caliper with new pads and worn discs for sale $300

[LotusGTR]

Duncan, what type of GTR rears please?

[LotusGTR]

The ST40 is the same for the F40 caliper for most of their 332mm rotor kits, which is the same as the Brembo GTR which is 44mm and 38mm pistons

Righto, so I've done the maths on those piston sizes and assuming they are correct (remember ST won't disclose sizes and make a point of telling you their kits are designed for a straight swap over, so for each type of vehicle they make kits for the pistons must be different sizes so they exactly match the OEM BMC - maybe) the ST pistons are 3.5% larger than the std Sumis. That being the case, 15/16 goes to 15.5/16. So, given my BMC needs replacing, do I get a 1" or stick with the std 15/16? This excludes the rear which are a 2 piston cf the single OEM, so you'd expect an increase there too, so perhaps that takes it to 1" or even 17/16.......Got specs on the rears?

I've been told if I go the CSC 6 piston 355mm front and 343mm single piston rear to go for the 17/16........I still have no data on their piston sizes but should be able to get that and double check that advice.

I'll start researching the APs and BMCs.

Edited September 12, 2008 by LotusGTR

[Roy]

Frankly, its good to keep an eye on the piston area as when buying aftermarket calipers some of the less common options mean you cna buy a 4 pot caliper cheap and end up with a caliper that is meant for the rear, or some Porsche calipers that aportion bias/brakign torque differently because of all the weight they have over the rear axle.

But with regards to master cylinder sizing, they do have reasonably wide operating windows. Dont forget if you go up in piston area size you often dont notice any difference in pedal feel as simply the aftermarket caliper is stiffer and there is less flex in the caliper .... so less pedal effort.

For now i will sit on the fence a bit longer, with me being OS and the dollar struggling i will wait and see if the dollar recovers a little then grab a kit then,

[LotusGTR]

Nick, try the GTR UK site. There are quite a few guys there who have gone Stoptec

I've given this a go. People tend to like them but there are stories of pad knock off (the brakes or the car's fault?). Some people seem to rate them well for heavy street use but suggest they are limited on the track. Some seem to prefer APs.......

So much of this seems to be subjective. I'm beginning to think it comes down to any number of known reputable brands, your budget, and what you 'just want'.