Zoid's Gts Build

[Mr. Untouchable]

few things, were the returns enlarged? obvioulsy you dont know what size restrictors are fitted.

I have been planning a build for 3 years, and to be honest mate i have spoken to some of the country's finest builders, and fitting a hi flow pump (the nitto) with a stock sump isnt the greatest setup, especially since the cars see's drift & track work (sustained high RPM"s). the amount of oil that thing is pumping would leave you with not a whole hell of a lot at times in the sump.

should of had the returns enlarged, smallest possible restrictors fitted without the hydro lifters starving (1.2ish). ASR/race pace/capel or simular 9L plus track orientated sump. and some say they are rubbish waste of time, but the lads at tas engine reco say the breather from back of the head to the block/sump is a worthwhile mod, this is something I will have done myself.

if all that is setup right, the mines baffles/high octane and 26 covers shouldnt be needed, however they are a good thing to do on top of the others.

the nitto pump needs to have some tension pulled out if it is out of the box too. they run too much preasure, which wouldnt be helping matters.

with a big ass oil cooler and filter and 9L sump, should get 10 odd litres in it and if the returns etc are enlarged and the restrictors are the right size and the pump isnt 10000000 squillion PSI and you have the baflles in covers you should end up with bugger all in the can, or better yet none (except residue).

the only bandaid fix would be to have the catch return to the sump, has been done but i wouldnt be happy.

anywho, thats my unqualified, keybaord engineer 2 cents worth.

cheers

[zoidbergmerc]

Yeah, what you're saying sits in close correlation with the research I've been doing too. Except for the enlargening of the oil returns, the jist that I got was that was an optional extra that you could do if you felt like it but a lot of people don't bother.

Also the mines baffles aren't made to stop the head flooding problem, they're made to stop oil coming out when you're sloshing it around through the bends and other high g forces.

I've got a n1 pump with a nitto collar, not a nitto pump. But yeah, waaaaaay too much oil pressure at the moment, over 100psi, I'll need to drop it down to around 80psi I reckon. the rule of thumb is 10psi for every 1000rpm you want to run and I reckon I'll wind it up to 8200rpm and increase the preload on the stock valve springs to stop the valves floating.

I'm hitting the limiter in 3rd about half way up the hill now which is a little annoying, I don't really want to pull 4th either because it just bogs down and doesn't go much faster, I suppose not much faster is better than no faster in 3rd though... WTB Hollenger 6 speed anyone want to donate one?

I reckon new sump will be on the cards too before I start TSS with the breathers going back to the sump will be good, because my VCT and Turbo oil return share the only hole on the block atm because it's a NA block with no Turbo return tapped in.

Oh well, we'll see what happens after this weekend. GT Garage are being really cool and helping out with the development of my car too and giving lots of useful advice and helpful support.

[Mr. Untouchable]

if you had 18's like a real man it would have longer legs and you wouldnt hit limiter as soon

bro maths

[Mr. Untouchable]

Also the mines baffles aren't made to stop the head flooding problem, they're made to stop oil coming out when you're sloshing it around through the bends and other high g forces.

no shit did i say they were? you big mong.

[jangles]

f**k you and your hair and your car and your favourite colour!

This thread is now a rageathon about oil coming out of breathers.

Just ordered my mines baffles and oil restricters! Testing the baffles this weekend to see what that fixes. I'm going to go and agree with Jangles though and mines baffles plus 26 cam covers will only increase my engine's ability to store oil in the head. 26 covers with baffles are just treating a symptom, not the cause. But they will help with keeping oil in there when giving it the beans up the hill.

Restricters will keep the oil out of the head and keep it in the bottom end hopefully curing my oil surge issues.

No one seems to know what oil restricters went in there, Oh well, you get that on the big jobs.

wrong, with the big jobs you'd know exactly whats in there

Edited August 15, 2011 by jangles

[jangles]

should of had the returns enlarged, smallest possible restrictors fitted without the hydro lifters starving (1.2ish). ASR/race pace/capel or simular 9L plus track orientated sump. and some say they are rubbish waste of time, but the lads at tas engine reco say the breather from back of the head to the block/sump is a worthwhile mod, this is something I will have done myself.

cheers

this is true, as a breather it works, there are other more efficient ways of creating the 'equalized pressure' though

[zoidbergmerc]

this is true, as a breather it works, there are other more efficient ways of creating the 'equalized pressure' though

Yeah well, that almost a perfect circle when you have it like that isn't it?

[zoidbergmerc]

no shit did i say they were? you big mong.

wrong, with the big jobs you'd know exactly whats in there

That's enough out of you two.

My epiphany was posted not for your benift, but perhaps someone else might read it. Someone that's not too clued into RB oil behavior. So when someone says "do a search" this thread might come up...

[jangles]

Yeah well, that almost a perfect circle when you have it like that isn't it?

yes, but with oil in the line..

if you do it other ways, the sump will breathe and so will the head, seperately..

Just food for thought, as it works as a 'breather' and not so much as a 'drain', where does all the oil rush to under acceleration?

causing said tube to fill with oil, but not flow with oil, therefore 'blocking' equalization path

I am getting same set up off my race car made for my daily if you would like a copy,zero oil in catch, same guy can make you a decent sump also. I'll be down your way this week if you would like to discuss

[zoidbergmerc]

I am getting same set up off my race car made for my daily if you would like a copy,zero oil in catch, same guy can make you a decent sump also. I'll be down your way this week if you would like to discuss

Very interesting, yeah are you coming to help us remove an engine? We'll need an engine crane too if you've got one handy.

[zoidbergmerc]

I'll just leave this here...

http://mrbizzle.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/84/

Very comprehensive summary of that billion page oil control thread on SAU with some cool pics too

[jangles]

But it doesn't have the point where the rear head drain does not work as a drain because the welsch plug is higher than oil......

Edited August 25, 2011 by jangles

[XRATED]

Ok kiddies...

Head drain to turbo side of the sump... above the oil level.

Breather line from the intake side of the sump... above the oil level... to the catch can.

Decent breather lines from each rocker cover to the catch can..

AND

A ballance breather between each rocker cover at the rear- Just like a stock 26.

There's a huge pressure difference between the rocker covers under load. Equalising the pressure between the covers helps to reduce the oil drain pressure build up.

I'm not a huge fan of restricers.. It's the last thing I would try. And I havn't needed them yet...

Whats new on the white whale Pete?

[sav man]

I've got my restricters in, and i'm putting a -10 fitting high on the drivers side of the sump (60mm above windage tray), into a oil air separator then to a catch can.

multiple people have proven than the drain is useless. Get the pressure out of the sump, and the oil will drain down.

[zoidbergmerc]

yeah I'm not really a fan of the drain in the back of the head, seems pointless because it's too high.I'll be doing all those breather things Justin said when I get my new sump, decided new sump needed to happen after the oil pressure light came on under brakes.Why don't you like oil restrictors, Justin? Progress on my skyline has been halted for now, got so much other shit stealing all my car money at the moment which is really trolling me, just want it all to FOAD so I can get out there and rip so skids. Jack's going to beat me to TSS at this rate!

[XRATED]

I'd rather have more oil going roundy roundy, than starving bearing sufaces at low pressure. Stock engines don't run super tight restricters... Also the smaller the hole, the easier it can block up..

Especially with vct.

I didn't get a drop of oil in the catch can the last track day I ran... 25 and an N1 pump running quite high oil pressure too.

Do note though, under brakes my oil pressure bottomed right out. So loose the stock sump asap!

[zoidbergmerc]

yeah I'm leaving the VCT feed as it is so that still have enough oil to do it's thing, blocking the centre and putting a 1.1mm in the back. Well, that's my current plan. I can be swayed either way with sufficient evidence.

I'm running like 8 bar of oil pressure too with my n1 pump. with all that pressure and pretty tight oil restricters it'll still flow more than enough oil to the head.

Have you done all the mods to breathing that you've outlined in your aforementioned post?

Edited August 25, 2011 by zoidbergmerc

[XRATED]

No head drain... just intake side sump breather. It releases alot of pressure from the sump. Other than that just decent -12 brether lines and old school niccs rb20 rocker covers, with the stock baffles. Stock restrictors.

The new 30 has fairly large clearances... no oil in the catch can yet.

[SKiT_R31]

Just another note as I can’t really find any info on it, but when I cracked my RB25DE it had much larger oil restrictors than any DET I’ve ever opened before, very similar to RB30 spec. This could be an N/A feature (drivability/reliability or whatever) or maybe every DET engine I’ve ever opened has had the restrictors already changed in Japan but no one bothered with the N/A kid.

Could be why you’re having more trouble with you N1 setup than others?

When you get the head off you should know for sure what it has, and if you are concerned about restricting the top end you could do it a limited amount like run 2x1 - 1.25mm which would give some redundancy still being a shitload better than 2x ~1.8's. Depends if it’s worth the gamble of maybe having to crack it again and maybe block one down the track.

Either way, the way I see it your pump is flowing more than standard so it at least needs to be brought back to factory specs, but those specifications are for maintained low rpm / street rpm lets say an average of ~2500rpm (with known over oiling issues at high rpm standard), your car probably has an average of ~4500rpm(?) so it would make sense to restrict it further imo.

[SKiT_R31]

Also, insufficient lubrication of the top end at low rpm is far less of a concern for me compared with the bottom end and high rpm (also much cheaper and easier to fix).