Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Agreed, though people building their cars often don't do that much research - and the tuner/engine builder/whoever are often stuck with having to work with decisions that someone have already made.... not many tuners will turn someone away unless they've made a truly awful decision with the parts they've bought or how they've installed them (if they have at this point).

I don't tune professionally because dealing with this kind of thing daily would do my head in.

 

Edited by Lithium

the turbo is a efr7670? the engine is a rb25det neo with new bearings,gaskets,arp headstuds,new water /oilpump ,head drain,crank collar and bigger sump to be more reliable. exhaust manifold is a old hks twinscroll i think and hks wastegate, it also have a emu ecu with flexfuel sensor and 1200cc sidefeed injectors

  • Like 1

Alright fellas i'm back...

 

Pulled the drivetrain from the wrecked GTR...in the midst of being injured and bummed sold the 8374 .92 EFR and 6 boost manifold off of it.

 

Found another R32 GTR roller that i'm picking up this coming Sunday (yes exactly 1 year ago to the day of me totalling my car by setting the GTR jump distance record).

 

Anyway...what's changed? I'm going all out this time. Bigger cams (was on tomei poncam A) and lighter weight (gutted, caged) car this time. Motor is still BC stroker N1 block stock bores. 2.75 L...everything ther to rev 8,400...everything there to rev to 9k if I dry sump it this time. Last time I maxxed the ID 1350X injectors doing 740 whp on E85...what will the 9180 get me?

 

What turbo setup would you pick and why?

 

Patrick

 

 

  • Like 2
9 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

How the hell, and why, did you end up with sidefeeds on a Neo?

the intake manifold is greddy!and the fuelrail is from a rb25det s1 that was in the car before. so i did move that over on the neo engine and put on bigger injectors from 740cc to the new 1200cc ,going to run e85 on this

On 12/12/2018 at 10:43 PM, HarrisRacing said:

Last time I maxxed the ID 1350X injectors doing 740 whp on E85...what will the 9180 get me?

What turbo setup would you pick and why?

twin efr6258 would still be my favorite turbo setup.  if it had to be single turbo then thats a different conversation, but 2 good twins work and can be magic on these engines

Edited by Full-Race Geoff
  • Like 1
twin efr6258 would still be my favorite turbo setup.  if it had to be single turbo then thats a different conversation, but 2 good twins work and can be magic on these engines
Attached.m_5a650309b7f72b294869d6ba-1.jpeg

Hi? someone know around what rmp i gonna see full boost on my rb25det neo with the bw efr7670 1.05ar ? i have seen some results from the rb26dett engines.. but they do not have vct like the neo and i also have adjustable camgear on exhaust cam i can advance! will boost around 25-27 psi on max..

Here are some interesting real world tests (sorry its a 13B rotary Mazda) but still worth looking at.

100kph to 150kph in 2 seconds and 73 meters, makes 30 psi boost in 3rd gear at ~4800rpm and will hold power to 9300rpm it has a usable power band (235rwkw) from that rpm too, it really goes better than the peak power would suggest, fast on the road, too fast as it requires traction control most times.

Hope to get to try one (EFR) for myself :)

 

don.jpg

mega.jpg

100-150 2sec 73m.jpg

5 hours ago, RICE RACING said:

Here are some interesting real world tests (sorry its a 13B rotary Mazda) but still worth looking at.

100kph to 150kph in 2 seconds and 73 meters, makes 30 psi boost in 3rd gear at ~4800rpm and will hold power to 9300rpm it has a usable power band (235rwkw) from that rpm too, it really goes better than the peak power would suggest, fast on the road, too fast as it requires traction control most times.

Hope to get to try one (EFR) for myself :)

 

don.jpg

mega.jpg

100-150 2sec 73m.jpg

ok nice! what efr is that?

41 minutes ago, s14 rb25det said:

ok nice! what efr is that?

EFR 9180 IWG version, running around 118,000rpm at peak engine rpm

This is it running at a bit lower power setting

 

Edited by RICE RACING
vid attached

It really gets going ,?  13B is such a small motor and it weighs less than half of the  RB26 motor

9180 on that,  MAD , how do they stand up to high revs under  that power?

9 minutes ago, Nismo 3.2ish said:

It really gets going ,?  13B is such a small motor and it weighs less than half of the  RB26 motor

9180 on that,  MAD , how do they stand up to high revs under  that power?

In two output shaft revolutions on a 13B it fires 4 times so its still displaces 2.616lt effectively. They are a small physical engine that is for sure, and have some great merits in relation to power density, The biggest drawbacks are if you have to compete in specific fuel consumption basis or specific power, they are about 20 to 30% less efficient when talking equivalent engine specifications.

Since the inception (1960's)  prone to sealing problems mostly cause of using a single linear beam to span 80mm distance (13B case) and keeping it in tolerance (flat, round tip on housing surface) is for all intensive purposes impossible. Then consider it has shared chambers and you can effectively take out up to half of the engine. It involves very specific calibration requirements to keep them alive (much harder than any piston engines typically).

In short to answer your question directly though.

This motor v's a RB with same turbo, I have running at same specific power (give or take) bhp/lt/bar and currently have them both at around 1 hour on full load, the Mazda still has compression LOL. Its something no one can really do this is why you don't see any on the road as real road cars, of if they do they have a motor every month put into them with no data to back up the claims of 'durability' we have been proving this car for over 2 years consistently. I will say one thing, without a Life Racing ECU and water injection system none of it would be remotely possible at all. Sure you can have a one hit wonder BS dyno claim or a few 'drag passes' and corresponding arsefacebook posts of world domination, but none of those cars EVER have any road proof of them working ;) or if they try they detonate crack the block throw oil on the tires and spear off into the bushes killing the driver LOL.

We have drift cars in NZ with three or four rotor engines making huge power with a good degree of reliability. It can be done.

 

https://www.worldtimeattack.com/index.php/mad-mike-returns-in-the-quad-rotor-madbul-rx7/

8 hours ago, RICE RACING said:

In short to answer your question directly though.

This motor v's a RB with same turbo, I have running at same specific power (give or take) bhp/lt/bar and currently have them both at around 1 hour on full load, the Mazda still has compression LOL. Its something no one can really do this is why you don't see any on the road as real road cars, of if they do they have a motor every month put into them with no data to back up the claims of 'durability' we have been proving this car for over 2 years consistently. I will say one thing, without a Life Racing ECU and water injection system none of it would be remotely possible at all. Sure you can have a one hit wonder BS dyno claim or a few 'drag passes' and corresponding arsefacebook posts of world domination, but none of those cars EVER have any road proof of them working ;) or if they try they detonate crack the block throw oil on the tires and spear off into the bushes killing the driver LOL.

Had a test run in the RX8 , thought they had a hive of bees under the hood :)

Did you have to do to the motor and what supporting mods to get this result ?

 I would imagine you blew a few donks trying to get it right and I bet it cost a bit on R&D to get the motor to perform for 2 years without going POP!

Hope you didn't kill too many drivers to get the end result LOL

2 hours ago, Nismo 3.2ish said:

Had a test run in the RX8 , thought they had a hive of bees under the hood :)

Did you have to do to the motor and what supporting mods to get this result ?

 I would imagine you blew a few donks trying to get it right and I bet it cost a bit on R&D to get the motor to perform for 2 years without going POP!

Hope you didn't kill too many drivers to get the end result LOL

The motor in that car is a real nugget actually, built in NZ (it's in the title) but the porting is shit, rotors are the wrong CR, but it has a center bearing main shaft, while not necessary at all it is in there, these nugget engines are very prone to oil blockage and need attention to the breather system to make them work (again shit design) but it lives.

As said the porting is rubbish in the the extreme just goes to show you a rotary can make power with rubbish workmanship LOL...

Some pics below v's a proper port job.

In regards to getting it to live, I've been doing this since 1995 or so (my first turbo rotary) but what I did not have access too since only last 7 or so years is actual hi end race electronics that are exactly what is used in the best forced induction endurance race series around the world, this is what 'honestly' transformed a novel/different idea into some thing that works in all conditions and any eventualities we threw at it (and continue to put it through). We are the only people who run knock limited turbocharged rotaries (to my knowledge)... engines are fully controlled in knock to pre ignition stages, and believe it or not have never yet lost an engine since running the Life Racing F88 ECU. It has taken well over 300 iterations of calibration revisions (yes 300!) some may find that hard to believe but its allot of hours of development and nothing more than that, hardware wise bugger all has changed, some development of water injection specifications and proper integration into the ECU.

Don't get me wrong lots of people (not just me) I am sure have the formula to make these kunt boxes actually work but its the implementation and making it a reality that is the hard bit we have all struggled with !

 

PPRE dogshit v RR donmega.jpg

PPRE v RRdonmega.jpg

Yocunts.jpg

This is what is crucial in these engines and why I rave on about Life Racing who are the undisputed masters of knock control engines honestly.

You can quickly and randomly at times go from minor knock to pre igntion in one engine cycle! and good luck if your ECU of choice and calibrator have no real experience in running to this limit :)

mi.jpg

cro.jpg

wreck.jpg

On 12/16/2018 at 8:23 AM, KiwiRS4T said:

We have drift cars in NZ with three or four rotor engines making huge power with a good degree of reliability. It can be done.

 

 

^ and some of those examples you quote as 'reliable' famously detonated at WTAC and spewed out oil (though no one was killed LOL). Also spinning wheels for a few seconds is not comparable to loading up an engine at 200+kph consistently and repeatedly.

I stand by my original comments, mechanical engineering is the ultimate distiller of bullshit, therefore you only see things in the world that work, this is why you don't see rotaries be they turbo or otherwise in anything meaningful at the top, be that circuit racing, drag racing, top speed events, or out on the streets.

Compare them on an equivalence basis and they are nowhere, still a novel engine though for kunts who like to be different ;)

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Hey Dave, welcome aboard! Good to see another soon-to-be Stagea owner here. The wagons are awesome — plenty of space, still got that Skyline DNA, and loads of potential if you’re into mods. Definitely post up pics when you get it, everyone here loves seeing new builds. What model/year are you looking at?
    • See if you can thermal epoxy a heatsink or two onto it?
    • The other problem was one of those "oh shit we are going to die moments". Basically the high spec Q50s have a full electric steering rack, and the povo ones had a regular hydraulic rack with an electric pump.  So couple of laps into session 5 as I came into turn 2 (big run off now, happily), the dash turned into a christmas tree and the steering became super heavy and I went well off. I assumed it was a tyre failure so limped to the pits, but everything was OK. But....the master warning light was still on so I checked the DTCs and saw – C13E6 “Heat Protection”. Yes, that bloody steering rack computer sitting where the oil cooler should be has its own sensors and error logic, and decided I was using the steering wheel too much. I really appreciated the helpful information in the manual (my bold) POSSIBLE CAUSE • Continuing the overloading steering (Sports driving in the circuit etc,) “DATA MONITOR” >> “C/M TEMPERATURE”. The rise of steering force motor internal temperature caused the protection function to operate. This is not a system malfunction. INSPECTION END So, basically the electric motor in the steering rack got to 150c, and it decided to shut down without warning for my safety. Didn't feel safe. Short term I'll see if I can duct some air to that motor (the engine bay is sealed pretty tight). Long term, depending on how often this happens, I'll look into swapping the povo spec electric/hydraulic rack in. While the rack should be fine the power supply to the pump will be a pain and might be best to deal with it when I add a PDM.
    • And finally, 2 problems I really need to sort.  Firstly as Matt said the auto trans is not happy as it gets hot - I couldn't log the temps but the gauge showed 90o. On the first day I took it out back in Feb, because the coolant was getting hot I never got to any auto trans issues; but on this day by late session 3 and then really clearly in 4 and 5 as it got hotter it just would not shift up. You can hear the issue really clearly at 12:55 and 16:20 on the vid. So the good news is, literally this week Ecutek finally released tuning for the jatco 7 speed. I'll have a chat to Racebox and see what they can do electrically to keep it cooler and to get the gears, if anything. That will likely take some R&D and can only really happen on track as it never gets even warm with road use. I've also picked up some eye wateringly expensive Redline D6 ATF to try, it had the highest viscosity I could find at 100o so we will see if that helps (just waiting for some oil pan gaskets so I can change it properly). If neither of those work I need to remove the coolant/trans interwarmer and the radiator cooler and go to an external cooler....somewhere.....(goodbye washer reservoir?), and if that fails give up on this mad idea and wait for Nissan to release the manual 400R
    • So, what else.... Power. I don't know what it is making because I haven't done a post tune dyno run yet; I will when I get a chance. It was 240rwkw dead stock. Conclusion from the day....it does not need a single kw more until I sort some other stuff. It comes on so hard that I could hear the twin N1 turbos on the R32 crying, and I just can't use what it has around a tight track with the current setup. Brakes. They are perfect. Hit them hard all day and they never felt like having an issue; you can see in the video we were making ground on much lighter cars on better tyres under brakes. They are standard (red sport) calipers, standard size discs in DBA5000 2 piece, Winmax pads and Motul RBF600 fluid, all from Matty at Racebrakes Sydney. Keeping in mind the car is more powerful than my R32 and weighs 1780, he clearly knows his shit. Suspension. This is one of the first areas I need to change. It has electronically controlled dampers from factory, but everything is just way too soft for track work even on the hardest setting (it is nice when hustling on country roads though). In particular it rolls into oversteer mid corner and pitches too much under hard braking so it becomes unstable eg in the turn 1 kink I need to brake early, turn through the kink then brake again so I don't pirouette like an AE86. I need to get some decent shocks with matched springs and sway bars ASAP, even if it is just a v1 setup until I work out a proper race/rally setup later. Tyres. I am running Yoko A052 in 235/45/18 all round, because that was what I could get in approximately the right height on wheels I had in the shed (Rays/Nismo 18x8 off the old Leaf actually!). As track tyres they are pretty poor; I note GTSBoy recently posted a porker comparo video including them where they were about the same as AD09.....that is nothing like a top line track tyre. I'll start getting that sorted but realistically I should get proper sized wheels first (likely 9.5 +38 front and 11 +55 at the rear, so a custom order, and I can't rotate them like the R32), then work out what the best tyre option is. BTW on that, Targa Tas had gone to road tyres instead of semi slicks now so that is a whole other world of choices to sort. Diff. This is the other thing that urgently needs to be addressed. It left massive 1s out of the fish hook all day, even when I was trying not too (you can also hear it reving on the video, and see the RPM rising too fast compared to speed in the data). It has an open diff that Infiniti optimistically called a B-LSD for "Brake Limited Slip Diff". It does good straight line standing start 11s but it is woeful on the track. Nismo seem to make a 2 way for it.
×
×
  • Create New...