RH9 R32 GTR Build Thread

[OST Micah]

Been sitting about 3 weeks now. Stinks but customer cars come first. I shined it up a bit though one evening. Really anxious to get it on the dyno.

[OST Micah]

While I'm waiting for a free spot on the dyno I figured I may as well do something productive with the car. Last year fuel pressure was dropping out on ethanol (fine on gas). It wasn't plummeting and still had pressure enough that I could run the car but it wasn't right. The car only has -6/HICAS lines for supply and return so the first test will be replacing the supply line with a -8. Hopefully this takes car of the issue but if not, I made provisions for a third pump to be added.

This is what I started with. Sort of nice, but how the wiring came through the hat was not up to snuff.

 

Milled out the underside to get a nice flat surface for the bulkhead nuts.

 

Drilled out the factory wiring connector and potted it with three sets of pump wires. Currently only have two pumps but just in case. Also filled in the hole where the wires previously exited.

 

What it looks like in the tank. This y-block is much less restrictive than the setup I cobbled together before.

 

Installed. No sheetmetal cut or bent to fit 8an. And the steel cover fits with no spacers or modification.

 

1/2" hardline made up to fit in the HICAS slot. 

 

No pictures of the engine bay lines but nothing looks too different there. We'll see what happens! 

[Duncan]

Nicely executed mods to the factory hat there, they should be nice and reliable. 

You are probably aware, but there are aftermarket hats available these days too for higher flow lines and higher current connectors, eg from https://frenchysperformancegarage.com/collections/fuel-system-kits

[Ben C34]

Fuel will wick up through the wiring * inside the insulation) the way you have done that . It isn't sealed properly. you need bulkhead fittings to allow it to be properly sealed.

[OST Micah]

13 hours ago, Duncan said:

Nicely executed mods to the factory hat there, they should be nice and reliable. 

You are probably aware, but there are aftermarket hats available these days too for higher flow lines and higher current connectors, eg from https://frenchysperformancegarage.com/collections/fuel-system-kits

Thank you! 

Yes, there are a couple really nice hats out there. If this was a customer car I would be purchasing one of those. I'm just too stingy and if I can make a decent version myself I will at least give it a shot. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by OST Micah

[OST Micah]

Well it's been a while since I've updated as it's been a struggle.

Last November the few month old engine was torn down due to a rod bearing noise. The engine never lost oil pressure and on one partial pass on a brutally hot day oil pressure dipped to 58psi. It made no noises after the pass and there was nothing in the oil. Oil pressure Engine Protection was set to trip at 55psi. Later that week I tested a launch out on the street. It was about 38F out and I let the car warm up a bit but maybe not enough. Immediately after the launch I heard a light rod knock. Related to the short time of 58psi at high RPM or the potentially cold oil? 

While the crank was being repaired the head and cams we done as posted on the last page. Got the car on the dyno shortly after the last post. Did some light and medium load driving and all seemed well. Oil pressure was a bit lower than I would have liked to see but I chalked it up to the now larger main bearing clearance as they were the only bearing available at the time. After two partial WOT hits on wastegate pressure the oil was drained and the filter cut open. Nice and clean with no bearing material.

Fresh oil in and two more partial WOT hits just to watch oil pressure and changing gears to see if time, load, or RPM related. Again, a lower than I would like so I got some 40 and 50 weight oil to try - just to troubleshoot and see if it helped. Drained the oil and several large chunks of bearing material came out of the sump. This was seriously disheartening. Really frustrated with the car and myself at that point. Pulled the engine again a few days later to see where I was. 4 of 6 rod bearings were completely squeezed out of the rods like they were made of play-dough. Freshly repaired crank was beat up but likely repairable again. 

Bought a new crank to be safe, two new rods, and new rod bolts for all (old rods and crank are said to be fine by our builder so they will go on a shelf for a rainy day). New oil pump gears, new oil pump housing purchased as well. The old ones were beat up at this point. 

After tearing the engine down and sending it out the our builder I pushed the car into the storage building and took a break from it. Did house projects, built a garden, got chicken coops and chickens - just got my mind off of it. 

Yesterday the shortblock arrived. It was a bit unexciting as I had started to forget about the car which was nice. But back to work we go. 

 

This time I will be blocking off the relief in the oil pump and running an external adjustable relief. I will set the oil pressure to give the engine all the pump needed - looking for 100psi of oil pressure at WOT.

I will also make the sump more easy to remove by modifying the area that covers the rear bolts. This will be to change the oil pump should I need to and to check or replace the rod bearings on a regular basis. I'll also be adding a bung at the front of the sump to be able to access the pump relief should this external relief not work. Lastly, I'm adding a ClearView filter to keep an eye on the oil without having to cut the filter every drive, dyno hit, or pass. 

Sorry for the wall of text! I'll be chipping away at this over the next several weeks.

Marking center of the relief on the sump.

Edited September 16, 2023 by OST Micah

[Duncan]

Ahh that suck to hear, sadly these engines can be difficult for oiling, they don't call RBs Run Bearings for nothing...

What oil pump are you running?

I guess advice should come from your engine builder, but these days we run bigger clearances and heavier oil 20/50, the last engine in the car is the only time I've pulled it out before it broke...got 3 seasons from it

[OST Micah]

12 hours ago, Duncan said:

Ahh that suck to hear, sadly these engines can be difficult for oiling, they don't call RBs Run Bearings for nothing...

What oil pump are you running?

I guess advice should come from your engine builder, but these days we run bigger clearances and heavier oil 20/50, the last engine in the car is the only time I've pulled it out before it broke...got 3 seasons from it

Thanks, Duncan.

Running an N1 pump with Spool spline drive. I'd love a bigger pump but if I put trash through it the cost of another would hurt even more than the cost of the first. If the N1 simply cannot make the pressure (I know it can with slightly less bearing clearance on other builds) then I will bite the bullet and get a Nitto pump. Another reason I'm making sure the sump can be removed in-car.

Thank you for the insight. Yes, we are running larger clearances as the crank was touching the mains with stock clearances (first engine teardown). I think the larger clearance is likely why the bearing issues occurred. The first engine had stock clearances and 80-90psi oil pressure at high rpm and 10-40 oil. The second engine had around .0023" main bearing clearance and 75-80psi oil pressure at high rpm and 20-50 oil. When I rebuilt that engine this Spring it had .0028" main bearing clearance and 65psi oil pressure with 20-50. As the clearance went higher the pressure went much lower. Most of the people involved in this (including myself) are V8 engine guys and 70psi or even 60psi of oil pressure is no problem for those engines even running into the 8s at 4400lbs. But I am guessing that for our little engines and tiny rod bearings it's just not enough. That's why each engine lasted a shorter time with less oil pressure. This new engine has .0022" mains and I will not run it up if I cannot get 90psi+ oil pressure at high RPM.

For oil it was broken in on Lucas 30wt break-in oil. Drained, filter cut, and 20-50 was used. Never got to try the 40 and 50wt. Going to use 10-60 this time after break-in. Maybe 10-60 with some 40 or 50wt to get the cold viscosity up if needed.

Edited September 17, 2023 by OST Micah

[OST Micah]

Oil pump porting. 

 

Spool spline drive gears

 

Backing plate bolted back on with torx-head bolts. These get harvested from Gen3 Hemi oil pumps before throwing them away.

 

Modified for an HKS trigger kit.

 

The threaded relief cap that was used to find center on the oil pan is reused here. Took the spring out of the pump, wound a long bolt into the threaded cap and snugged it up tight. Then welded it in place and cut off the excess. This blocks off the relief entirely so the external relief can do the job instead. In case this doesn't work, I'm adding a 20an bung to the pan just below the cap to access this.

[OST Micah]

Pump relief access bung added. Welding didn't go so hot on this one.

 

Two -10 bungs added to the side: upper for head drain that will be going on, lower for external relief return. This lower bung has a 1/2" tube welded to it prior to being welded to the sump. This tube gets the relief return oil as close to the pickup as possible. Hopefully this replicates the factory relief return well enough.

 

Sump is now completed and the engine can start going together.

Edited September 28, 2023 by OST Micah

[OST Micah]

Here we go again...

[OST Micah]

A year of slogging through this bearing issue and finally fixed. What a nightmare. The oil pressure increase did not fix the problem. If you would like to read all the details in case you ever run into a similar issue visit my thread on Yellow Bullet.

https://www.yellowbullet.com/threads/continuous-rod-bearing-issues.2689569/?post_id=74193031&nested_view=1&sortby=oldest#post-74193031

In the end the rod bearings themselves were the issue. I had switched from ACL (first engine) to King because that was all we could get at the time and I thought nothing of it. Put the ACL's back in after a year of taking the pan off multiple times to change many things. Issue resolved. Can't believe it was just the bearings themselves all along.

It has now been about two years since I drove the car on the street or had it at the track. At some point I had installed all solid and spherical bushings in the rear but had never aligned it since it just went on and off the dyno. Alignment was the first thing to do.

(Old photo but same concept)

Then I took the transmission out and went through it. This was my first gearset install and I've done about 15 since this one and learned a lot and wanted to apply some of these tweaks to mine. The aftermarket shift forks take very well to some modification and I wanted to make that change. Shifts are now super smooth and no having to find the gear. I also recut the 5th and reverse shift sleeves - always wanted to try this and see how well it works. It works very well! No grinds or having to do a second attempt going into reverse and 5th is perfect.

Before

During

After

Going back in

In rummaging through my spare trans parts box I found the only parts I've ever broke on a stock trans; the 3-4 shift fork - twice!

 

[Looney_Head]

did you go to the us gtr festival? any progress on getting the car back out and running?

[OST Micah]

On 12/12/2024 at 9:33 PM, Looney_Head said:

did you go to the us gtr festival? any progress on getting the car back out and running?

I did not go to GTR Festival. It's quite a long drive and the car wasn't dialed in yet. I also wanted to see how the racing portion went before going. From what I can tell the classes were not heads up, index, or bracket - just whoever has the quickest ET wins. Never heard of that sort of thing before and maybe some people like it but it's not my cup of tea. I don't suspect I'll go if that is how the racing is done.

I did get the car out three times and had issues each time. Some were my error - haven't raced the car in over two years - and others were parts. Had trouble getting the clutch to slip correctly and remembering how it was set up in the Haltech. Broke some drivetrain parts as well that couldn't be fixed in a couple days to get back out. Season definitely didn't end the way I wanted but at least the bearings are still fine! Not a fleck of material in the filter.

Really hoping next year is the year I can actually test this car properly. 

Edited December 15, 2024 by OST Micah

[OST Micah]

I don't believe I posted pictures of the second oil pump pickup I added so here they are. Data shows it gets oil pressure up to the relief pressure much earlier in the RPM. Is that important? Not likely... This was just another attempt to fix the bearing issues.
 

I also heavily opened up the inlet to the pump since it now had to flow oil from two pickups. I believe the diameter increased about 1/8".

Edited July 8 by OST Micah

[OST Micah]

The holdups last year were drivetrain related. I had the car out right after getting the bearing issue resolved. Third launch and the car didn't move after releasing the clutch. It had sheared all the engagement teeth off the 1st gear. 

 

Thankfully no other damage was done. I set an aftermarket gear beside an OEM gear and found that the engagement teeth on the OEM gear were much larger and better supported. Looking through my bin of spare transmission gears I found that there are two types of tooth on the OEM first gears - the larger tooth and the smaller tooth. It looks like most aftermarket gearset manufacturers base their design on the smaller tooth.

OEM large tooth left - Speedtek, OS Giken, etc or OEM small tooth right

Decided to give that larger engagement tooth a try. Pressed the ring off an OEM gear and sent it to a transmission manufacturer here in the States. They did their "faceplating" operation with my synchro ring on the Speedtek gear.

 

I reassembled it, took it back to the track and promptly destroyed the gear itself. 

I'll rebuild this and use it as a spare - thankfully just first gear and the countershaft are damaged beyond repair. Definitely disheartening but my welded on engagement tooth ring held up! 

Moved to Speedtek's dog engagement design as the gears appear to be much stronger. So far they have taken much more abuse at the track.

Also scored a Stillway lockout from the Netherands for super cheap. It's for some other RB transmission so it took a bit of fabrication to fit but honestly a very easy job. I also had to heavily modify the gates as they were very different.




 

Then for some reason at the last test and tune a silicon coupler below the throttle blew off and took out the radiator and fan. Thankfully it was in the burnout box and not down track. This car is really beating me up - I still haven't made a pass in it. Ran it through the gears many times on the street but it keeps biting me at the track. 

Currently in the process of replacing the radiator and remaking the throttle pipe to remove the coupler and use a cast 90 and a vband. I WILL get this thing down the track...

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Curious to see how the SpeedTek stuff holds up

[soviet_merlin]

Oof, I will forevermore have those shredded gears in mind whenever someone talks about showing mechanical sympathy towards their car.

Thanks for the photos, fascinating stuff!