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BK Grand Master

BK

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, khezz said:

You and Paul are a "HORSEPOWERISTS". When I get 1200rwhp I'll wonder why it broke and I don't want to hear shit from either of you @freehorsepower

Yeah but you'll be prepared because you'll know why it broke !

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khezz Rising Star

khezz

Posted
Posted

I had a call from PPG just a few minutes ago as I am in the market for a gearbox my self. I am, funny enough, chasing around 1200awhp. PPG dog box has larger helical gears then the sequential. I did not know that. PPG assured me that dog box will handle my power goal better then sequential. So might be an option to save money and improve reliability. Waiting on a price for helical and straight cut options.

BK Grand Master

BK

Posted
Posted

 

57 minutes ago, khezz said:

I had a call from PPG just a few minutes ago as I am in the market for a gearbox my self. I am, funny enough, chasing around 1200awhp. PPG dog box has larger helical gears then the sequential. I did not know that. PPG assured me that dog box will handle my power goal better then sequential. So might be an option to save money and improve reliability. Waiting on a price for helical and straight cut options.

H pattern has wider gears being a 5 speed in the same case. When I was looking to go back to a dog box my quote for fully optioned PPG straight cut H 5 speed dog assembled in case was around $15.5k.

For comparison I ended up with the PAR 5 speed straight cut H pattern dog which come in at around $11 - $12k assembled by Sam at Neat Gearboxes. Main difference in price was the PPG gearset is about $2k more than the PAR and the PPG price included the optioned billet main shaft. I was talked out of billet main shaft on a GTR as they really don't break because the shaft is so short, unlike a rwd case having a much longer main shaft.

As you're going for 1200rwhp I'd only be considering straight cut gears, not helical. If you mentioned your power goals I'm surprised they even suggested the helical dog H pattern gearset as their own power rating is below the straight cut set.

khezz Rising Star

khezz

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, BK said:

 

H pattern has wider gears being a 5 speed in the same case. When I was looking to go back to a dog box my quote for fully optioned PPG straight cut H 5 speed dog assembled in case was around $15.5k.

For comparison I ended up with the PAR 5 speed straight cut H pattern dog which come in at around $12k assembled. Main difference in price is the PPG gearset is about $2k more than the PAR and the PPG price included the optioned billet main shaft. I was talked out of billet main shaft on a GTR as they really don't break because the shaft is so short, unlike a rwd case having a much longer main shaft.

As you're going for 1200rwhp I'd only be considering straight cut gears, not helical. If you mentioned your power goals I'm surprised they even suggested the helical dog H pattern gearset.

Ppg say helical will be ok but if I can live with the noise of the straight cut gears, I should go that rout as there is more margin for error (my error).

khezz Rising Star

khezz

Posted
Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, BK said:

I would say back to PPG, show me a 1200rwhp + GTR running a helical 5 speed dog. I don't believe there is one running that kind of power that's not on the straight cut in H pattern.

I am sure you are right. I am definitely going the straight cut rout. Complaining about noise in a car like that is right up there with complaining about fuel economy. I am sure I'll make plenty of errors while learning the car so any room for error is welcome.

Edited by khezz
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BK Grand Master

BK

Posted
Posted

I dig straight cut. When you say room for error though, having a H pattern dog you a more likely to damage it if you don't know how to drive it. This is where sequentials come into their own because they are easier to use. When setup correctly they will wear the dogs less than an H dog as you always shift into gear correctly.

Not so with an H pattern. Quoting myself from the Big boss thread-

On 11/04/2021 at 11:13 PM, BK said:

OS giken with their OS88 state that, which is just covering their arse really. PPG early on with their H pattern had over 20000km without a teardown, proving that you can make them live without constant rebuilds. If you get to understand the mechanics of a dog box you'll understand what operational habits wear / damage them and what doesn't. At the end of the day they have to be unloaded to shift out of gear and synchronise the gear speed to select incoming gears without damage.

Sequentials are are great for this with dog boxes when strain gauge ignition cut is implemented for gear changes, as it unloads the gearset just long enough for the shift event to occur correctly. Shifting down gears is especially more tricky again with dog engagement, as it's easier to overspeed or underdpeed the gears on the shift event. Things like throttle blip ECU control, again usually in sequentials help with this gear speed matching to stop gear underspeed on the downshift.

This is why H pattern dog engagement boxes do actually require quite a fair bit of learning to get right, because the rev matching and gear unloading process is all completely manually done by the driver.

 

  • 7 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...
Old man 32 GTR Proficient

Old man 32 GTR

Posted
Posted

Looking at going back to a sequential set up myself for my car, had a PPG sequential in it previously, have done a lot of research and have tried to speak with as many people as I could, messaged a few members on here who run sequential to get their thoughts.

For me it was a hard decision, still tossing up as I have been offered a very good getrag, I want the car to be as ‘street friendly’ as possible so I have ruled straight cut out. 
But having owned a sequential, I did fall in love with it, car was unbelievably fun with it, felt horrible going back to a synchro box (stock box). So at this stage, I’m really leaning towards the Holinger. 
But for anyone considering sequential I can’t stress enough, take your time, do your research and talk to people who have them before pulling the trigger. 

Predator1 Rising Star

Predator1

Posted
Posted
On 10/12/2021 at 11:46 AM, r32-25t said:

Gone up since the last price I got quoted 

If people don't believe it, I'd be happy to post the quote up for arguments sake.

Personally, I don't see how PPG's helical gears can be stronger then straight cut dogs, which is why I didn't go with a PPG. Personally, I don't care how loud my gearbox is. I'd rather have a loud, and reliable setup, over a docile, and not so reliable setup.

Dorifudo Enthusiast

Dorifudo

Posted
Posted

I have just recently purchased the PPG Billet Sequential, but i definitely did not pay anywhere near that 32.5k AUD. I am happy with what ive got, as i am not chasing 1200+whp. Compared with my friends OS88 and Samsonas, the samsonas is definitely the business no doubt, but i believe it is a lot better than the ageing OS88

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