Going for 500+hp, need advice

[The Skyline Guy]

On 17/11/2021 at 5:09 PM, r32-25t said:

That’s the right part number but that listing looks dodgey as f**k 

Youre right, how about this one? https://rawbrokerage.com/products/garrett-gt2860r-7-turbocharger?variant=15094350938185

[joshuaho96]

On 11/17/2021 at 5:41 AM, The Skyline Guy said:

Just to be sure before I buy, can someone verify that this is the right -7 that I need: https://www.ebay.com/itm/303055603645

Will 340lph fuel pump work for 500+ crank hp, like this AEM one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/323980413969?epid=1217828034&hash=item4b6ebccc11:g:mH4AAOSwnxxdzcru Will this just mount right in the tank or do I need some different hoses, connections ect?

The brushed AEM 340 lph pumps are used all over the place. They might be fine Deatschwerks, Aeromotive, etc are all using that pump I think. Keep in mind the pressure relief spec on that pump is very low, only 80 psi supposedly. So if you have excessive restriction from the fuel lines there is not a lot of margin before it pops. DW's version of that pump has a 100 psi PRV. I also don't recommend buying off ebay for everything because of the markup and also questionable sourcing for a lot of parts. Keep in mind if you run a pump that can draw 15A you need to rethink your fuel pump wiring, the factory wiring is fused for 15A and realistically you shouldn't get too close to the limit because the wiring/electronics are not really designed for big power. The factory setup has a signal coming from the ECU to switch between different resistors for the fuel pump to reduce the operating voltage of the pump at idle and part throttle. This is done to reduce the power consumption of the fuel pump, allow for a lower flow fuel pressure regulator, allow the fuel level to get lower without the pump sucking air when driving around normally, and reduces how much heat you put into the fuel. You can get away without running a fuel pump controller but with the general availability of solid state high amp relays and the sheer number of digital PWM outputs on standalone ECUs it's really not that hard to do something similar to factory. I would not replicate the dropping resistor design of the factory controller, the dropping resistor has to dissipate quite a lot of power. 

Personally I think the DW 440 brushless pump is worth the extra expense/work/etc, mainly because brushless pumps can tolerate E85 much better than the traditional brushed pumps out there and they have much better high pressure characteristics, usually they go out to 125 psi for the PRV and they lose a lot less flow at higher output pressure. They also draw a lot less power for the same flow/pressure.

[The Skyline Guy]

On 17/11/2021 at 7:55 PM, joshuaho96 said:

The brushed AEM 340 lph pumps are used all over the place. They might be fine Deatschwerks, Aeromotive, etc are all using that pump I think. Keep in mind the pressure relief spec on that pump is very low, only 80 psi supposedly. So if you have excessive restriction from the fuel lines there is not a lot of margin before it pops. DW's version of that pump has a 100 psi PRV. I also don't recommend buying off ebay for everything because of the markup and also questionable sourcing for a lot of parts. Keep in mind if you run a pump that can draw 15A you need to rethink your fuel pump wiring, the factory wiring is fused for 15A and realistically you shouldn't get too close to the limit because the wiring/electronics are not really designed for big power. The factory setup has a signal coming from the ECU to switch between different resistors for the fuel pump to reduce the operating voltage of the pump at idle and part throttle. This is done to reduce the power consumption of the fuel pump, allow for a lower flow fuel pressure regulator, allow the fuel level to get lower without the pump sucking air when driving around normally, and reduces how much heat you put into the fuel. You can get away without running a fuel pump controller but with the general availability of solid state high amp relays and the sheer number of digital PWM outputs on standalone ECUs it's really not that hard to do something similar to factory. I would not replicate the dropping resistor design of the factory controller, the dropping resistor has to dissipate quite a lot of power. 

Personally I think the DW 440 brushless pump is worth the extra expense/work/etc, mainly because brushless pumps can tolerate E85 much better than the traditional brushed pumps out there and they have much better high pressure characteristics, usually they go out to 125 psi for the PRV and they lose a lot less flow at higher output pressure. They also draw a lot less power for the same flow/pressure.

I just need a fuel pump that can handle 500+ hp without having to do anything but switching the old one out with a new one if that is possible? 

is this one any good? https://www.speeding.no/p/drivstoff-system-an-koblinger/drivstoff-system/drivstoff-pumper/deatschwerks-in-tank-pump-dw400-lhr.html?gclid=CjwKCAiA7dKMBhBCEiwAO_crFIf0b0Hr0_X7b1f0Qeqx9h-2VscY0B2EjC82yEIarcz1nHL2BIBsERoC8d8QAvD_BwE

Edited November 17, 2021 by The Skyline Guy

[joshuaho96]

On 11/17/2021 at 11:13 AM, The Skyline Guy said:

I just need a fuel pump that can handle 500+ hp without having to do anything but switching the old one out with a new one if that is possible? 

17042-RRR46 from Nismo, it's 1200 USD or so. Tomei USA (not to be confused with Tomei Japan) sells something that looks like the Nismo pump but is half the price: https://www.z1motorsports.com/fuel-pumps/tomei/tomei-r34-gtr-high-flow-fuel-pump-upgrade-276lh-p-10499.html

If you want to run a DW300 my recommendation is to re-wire the fuel pump and to figure out a controller for it as well. Any little thing like high pressure drop across the fuel lines will mean that you're at the ragged edge of blowing the fuel pump fuse and you'll probably start burning marginal connections anyways. The Walbro GSS342 is another option, it is 255 lph and will drop as low as 190 lph at 70 psi but you have a lot of headroom left in your wiring as it only draws about 12A upper bound. You will be limited to pump gas only and you may run out of fuel pump if you try to run high base pressure and max out the turbos.

[choyda]

I think the Walbro E85 https://www.golebysparts.com.au/products/walbro-450-460lph-intank-pump-e85 is pretty common and will sort you for later if/when you go for more power or E85 conversion.  If you're doing the pump, do it right first time because its a lot of labour to get to it.  Just make sure you get the wiring done to run direct from the battery rather than the stock power lines.

[joshuaho96]

On 11/17/2021 at 1:24 PM, choyda said:

I think the Walbro E85 https://www.golebysparts.com.au/products/walbro-450-460lph-intank-pump-e85 is pretty common and will sort you for later if/when you go for more power or E85 conversion.  If you're doing the pump, do it right first time because its a lot of labour to get to it.  Just make sure you get the wiring done to run direct from the battery rather than the stock power lines.

I would recommend the DW440 brushless over that pump, they have an S14/S15 install kit so it's direct fit for the R33/R34s as well. If you're going to run new wiring and all this other stuff you may as well spend a little more on the pump and have something truly E85-proof. The brushed fuel pumps that are E85 compatible will still have a shorter lifespan on E85, brushless fuel pumps don't care at all. I am big on buy once cry once though.

[The Skyline Guy]

So if im going for the AEM 320lph in-tank fuel pump, ill need something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/182362092675?hash=item2a75a0b483:g:2yIAAOSwux5YM8ES to wire from the power for the fuel pump to the battery?

[r32-25t]

Are you using petrol or e85

[robbo_rb180]

On 11/18/2021 at 5:13 AM, The Skyline Guy said:

I just need a fuel pump that can handle 500+ hp without having to do anything but switching the old one out with a new one if that is possible? 

is this one any good? https://www.speeding.no/p/drivstoff-system-an-koblinger/drivstoff-system/drivstoff-pumper/deatschwerks-in-tank-pump-dw400-lhr.html?gclid=CjwKCAiA7dKMBhBCEiwAO_crFIf0b0Hr0_X7b1f0Qeqx9h-2VscY0B2EjC82yEIarcz1nHL2BIBsERoC8d8QAvD_BwE

You need to upgrade the wiring as most pumps draw more current than standard have seen a few engine failures from people just putting in pumps and not doing a relay and wire upgrade. 

[joshuaho96]

On 11/20/2021 at 1:58 PM, robbo_rb180 said:

You need to upgrade the wiring as most pumps draw more current than standard have seen a few engine failures from people just putting in pumps and not doing a relay and wire upgrade. 

And if you’re going to bother with wiring a pump and relay you may as well do PWM fuel pump control. I wouldn’t bother with trying to source a good R32 ECU with Nistune for an R33/R34 with no type 6 boards available. 

[robbo_rb180]

On 11/21/2021 at 11:26 AM, joshuaho96 said:

And if you’re going to bother with wiring a pump and relay you may as well do PWM fuel pump control. I wouldn’t bother with trying to source a good R32 ECU with Nistune for an R33/R34 with no type 6 boards available. 

a Link plugin or haltech with a patch loom is way to go. Future proof when decide on DBW, staged pumps, control AC, traction control, cruise control. 

[The Skyline Guy]

On 20/11/2021 at 10:27 PM, r32-25t said:

Are you using petrol or e85

petrol, never going e85

[Ben C34]

E85 rules .

Why never?

[joshuaho96]

Personally I would do flex fuel these days not only for all the performance benefits but also as a futureproofing measure. Even if oil extraction stops for the most part as cars electrify the US will almost certainly have tons of ethanol, especially as cellulosic ethanol starts reaching mass production. E85 in my area is already substantially cheaper than the 91 AKI E10 that passes for "premium gas".

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

On 21/11/2021 at 10:31 PM, The Skyline Guy said:

petrol, never going e85

Quoting this just incase you decide to go E85 and then edit your post.

 

[The Skyline Guy]

So I just got a email from the company that i ordered -7 turbos from saying that the -7s are on back order... Are the -9 turbos the same direct bolt on with the same oil and water feed and drain as original turbos as well, just like the -7?

Are they just as good on response and power as the -7?

[Piggaz]

The -7,-9 and -5 ‘upgrade’ would be the most talked and discussed topicS on SAU. If you dig all the answers are there. Would have to be 20 threads on these turds.

 

 

[GTSBoy]

On 11/23/2021 at 8:38 AM, Piggaz said:

Would have to be 20 threads on these turds

Per month, across 15 years.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Then in a year or two, we'll see a new topic about upgrading from twin -7/-9 to a Single turbo LOL.

[joshuaho96]

On 11/22/2021 at 11:59 AM, The Skyline Guy said:

So I just got a email from the company that i ordered -7 turbos from saying that the -7s are on back order... Are the -9 turbos the same direct bolt on with the same oil and water feed and drain as original turbos as well, just like the -7?

Are they just as good on response and power as the -7?

You don't even need to search for previous topics that talk about all of these questions, this has already been answered in this thread. The -9 is barely different from a -7. They will bolt on the same. As for response and power you can either look at the compressor maps already posted and other comments in this thread or use some google and find threads like this: 

Tuning ICE is not exactly for the faint of heart and RB motors are especially expensive to make mistakes on. Don't be penny wise pound foolish about this stuff.

Again, you should think deeply about what you want from the engine before you start putting down the better part of 10k USD to modify it. What do you like about the engine/car as it is now? What do you want to change about it? What is important to you? What do you want to use the car for? If you can't answer those questions clearly you shouldn't change anything until you can. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by joshuaho96