LED Headlight Bulb install?

[Chopstick Tuner]

Hey folks, 

Currently wondering if anyone has found a way to fit good LED bulbs into the projectors on a R32 Skyline? Factory ones are H1 in that unusual holder (springs outward rather than a fold over clip) that looks like a h4 plug connection. I'll include pics but given the type of clip and lack of space in there, rather than drilling the guts out of the holder (pic one) to fit the much larger LED, I thought surely someone has encountered this before and found a custom made clip to hold a led in there?? 

Let me know what you guys have done on your own headlights

 

NOTE: This is NOT a discussion of whether to use LEDs, halogens, or HIDs, or why you think one is gods gift and the rest are crap. So drop a comment only if you have an answer to what i actually asked  😂

[TurboTapin]

I used these in my older H3C R32 lights and they fit perfectly with zero modifications. They also look fantastic with no glare. Highly recommend them.

H3 LED CONVERSION KIT | HIDNation.com

Edited December 1, 2021 by TurboTapin

[Duncan]

Yeah LEDs are readily available for gtst/n1 style reflector lights, but the GTR projector ones I don't know something that fits. I ended up changing to reflector style

[joshuaho96]

If you guys are going to be putting LEDs in housings that are clearly not designed for them, at least get the CRUIZE LEDs which are at least Shaken compliant. It's not the same as ADR compliance but it's better than nothing.

[niZmO_Man]

Anyone who says putting LEDs in shitty 80's projectors is kidding themselves. I challenge you to prove your $50 LED kit is better than a proper HID retrofit. Very easy to do and has been well documented here. You will not get any magical improvement by putting in 10,000 Chinese lumens H1 or H3 LED kit. Nor any 100W blue tinted halogen bulb. If you put a H3 HID kit in, you will end up with two thin pillars of light. Been there, done that, spent hundreds on bulbs.

 

[Chopstick Tuner]

On 02/12/2021 at 12:18 PM, niZmO_Man said:

Anyone who says putting LEDs in shitty 80's projectors is kidding themselves. I challenge you to prove your $50 LED kit is better than a proper HID retrofit. Very easy to do and has been well documented here. You will not get any magical improvement by putting in 10,000 Chinese lumens H1 or H3 LED kit. Nor any 100W blue tinted halogen bulb. If you put a H3 HID kit in, you will end up with two thin pillars of light. Been there, done that, spent hundreds on bulbs.

 

Mate I don't care if you bought cheap crap LEDs 10 years ago and regretted it. If you don't have an answer don't bother commenting, made that clear in the post. Not the first time I've changed Halogens for LEDs in projector lights (in other model cars), always been an improvement if done right. Didn't even say anything about HIDs

 

[joshuaho96]

On 12/2/2021 at 12:53 AM, Chopstick Tuner said:

Mate I don't care if you bought cheap crap LEDs 10 years ago and regretted it. If you don't have an answer don't bother commenting, made that clear in the post. Not the first time I've changed Halogens for LEDs in projector lights (in other model cars), always been an improvement if done right. Didn't even say anything about HIDs

 

Did you measure the photometric test points for your locale? Or at least a similar LHD/RHD locale? You seem confident so I'm interested in seeing the data if you have it.

[niZmO_Man]

Yep, right here:

Enjoy your blobs of light.

[Chopstick Tuner]

On 02/12/2021 at 9:26 PM, niZmO_Man said:

Yep, right here:

Enjoy your blobs of light.

What are you even replying to man have you trouble reading? 

[Chopstick Tuner]

On 02/12/2021 at 7:53 PM, joshuaho96 said:

Did you measure the photometric test points for your locale? Or at least a similar LHD/RHD locale? You seem confident so I'm interested in seeing the data if you have it.

Nah

Just fitted them, and drove lol. Beam was always super crisp (tested properly not just on a wall), light output was a lot better. Much easier to see country roads. That's it, no data sorry. 

 

Managed to fit the LEDs in this tonight, got late so will try get some pics of light output if I have my power steering pipe sorted this weekend and can actually drive lol, beam looks good at least, well defined. 

[joshuaho96]

On 12/2/2021 at 4:19 AM, Chopstick Tuner said:

Nah

Just fitted them, and drove lol. Beam was always super crisp (tested properly not just on a wall), light output was a lot better. Much easier to see country roads. That's it, no data sorry. 

 

Managed to fit the LEDs in this tonight, got late so will try get some pics of light output if I have my power steering pipe sorted this weekend and can actually drive lol, beam looks good at least, well defined. 

If you aren't testing you don't really know. A lot of the time I see people confuse excessive foreground illumination for better lighting, the critical test points are something like 0.4 degrees below level in the SAE/US standards. Foreground illumination actually has a number of problems that are dangerous for night driving, it gives a false sense of confidence because your immediate surroundings are brighter but when you're doing 120 km/h anything you see from foreground lighting is impossible to react to, by the time you see it you're going to hit it. Only light just below level will have a chance of illuminating something far out enough to actually see it. On top of this excessive foreground actually makes it harder to see everything else because it's affecting your night vision. And on top of all of that in the rain foreground illumination just turns into glare as the water becomes a specularly reflective surface that bounces light into the eyes of oncoming traffic.

Probably the easiest test to do to get an idea for if the LED replacement is any good is to compare the level of the light when using the OEM spec bulbs vs the LED replacement. If the level of the cutoff changes at all that means the optics are not focusing properly, nothing good can come from that. Even if you adjust the level you will probably have worse illumination than when you started.

Some suggested reading: http://automotiveledresearch.com/testing-osram-ledriving-hl-h11-gen2-headlight-bulbs/

The inspection equipment they use in Japan for headlight compliance seems to give some indication of where the hotspots are as well, personally after seeing this I'd probably consider a proper retrofit as the hotspot appears to be well below the cutoff:

 

[Chopstick Tuner]

On 03/12/2021 at 6:04 AM, joshuaho96 said:

If you aren't testing you don't really know. A lot of the time I see people confuse excessive foreground illumination for better lighting, the critical test points are something like 0.4 degrees below level in the SAE/US standards. Foreground illumination actually has a number of problems that are dangerous for night driving, it gives a false sense of confidence because your immediate surroundings are brighter but when you're doing 120 km/h anything you see from foreground lighting is impossible to react to, by the time you see it you're going to hit it. Only light just below level will have a chance of illuminating something far out enough to actually see it. On top of this excessive foreground actually makes it harder to see everything else because it's affecting your night vision. And on top of all of that in the rain foreground illumination just turns into glare as the water becomes a specularly reflective surface that bounces light into the eyes of oncoming traffic.

Probably the easiest test to do to get an idea for if the LED replacement is any good is to compare the level of the light when using the OEM spec bulbs vs the LED replacement. If the level of the cutoff changes at all that means the optics are not focusing properly, nothing good can come from that. Even if you adjust the level you will probably have worse illumination than when you started.

Some suggested reading: http://automotiveledresearch.com/testing-osram-ledriving-hl-h11-gen2-headlight-bulbs/

The inspection equipment they use in Japan for headlight compliance seems to give some indication of where the hotspots are as well, personally after seeing this I'd probably consider a proper retrofit as the hotspot appears to be well below the cutoff:

 

It's an interesting read, and I do agree with the premise of it and the testing. But I have to disagree with the "if you're not testing you don't really know" statement. We're talking about illumination here, the LEDs I've used previously outperformed the halogens. Like I said I lived out in the countryside where I did a lot of driving in the dark, and I could see a lot more and a lot further with the LEDs. Could a proper retrofit outperform them? Absolutely. But were they nonetheless a good upgrade from halogens? Also yes. And that's the aim, good light without blinding other motorists, nothing complicated. 

[joshuaho96]

On 12/4/2021 at 6:35 AM, Chopstick Tuner said:

It's an interesting read, and I do agree with the premise of it and the testing. But I have to disagree with the "if you're not testing you don't really know" statement. We're talking about illumination here, the LEDs I've used previously outperformed the halogens. Like I said I lived out in the countryside where I did a lot of driving in the dark, and I could see a lot more and a lot further with the LEDs. Could a proper retrofit outperform them? Absolutely. But were they nonetheless a good upgrade from halogens? Also yes. And that's the aim, good light without blinding other motorists, nothing complicated. 

Yes, we're talking about illumination. If you don't know what you're looking for then it's very, very easy to think that more is more and end up with a lighting solution that is dangerous even if it doesn't appear to be blinding motorists due to the functional cutoff. Like I said before, excessive foreground illumination is one of the primary issues I see. In the US FMVSS 108 is the regulation that limits foreground illumination specifically because it provides false security. It seems like you can see more, but your night vision is actually worse and you can't see anything until it's too late to actually avoid it.

At the very least you should be using a smartphone camera with manual exposure control on a tripod to get an idea for where the hotspot is on your stock lights and a wall where you can swap bulbs across and test for whether the headlight aim has changed using tape lines. Nobody is saying you need to go out and buy an AMS 5000 goniophotometer test bench which probably costs something like 150k USD and test things like the OEMs do. 

[TurboTapin]

On 5/2/2022 at 11:53 AM, willperi said:

I did this on my headlights and all work fine.

Was this verified and signed off by an independent lab? If not, you're a mad man. As already mentioned, you might think you see better but in reality you don't. Your eyes are probably lying to you.

The Tom Cruise movie "Eyes wide shut" was actually based on this exact situation. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by TurboTapin

[soviet_merlin]

On 03/05/2022 at 3:14 AM, TurboTapin said:

The Tom Cruise movie "Eyes wide shut" was actually based on this exact situation. 

I forgot all about that! That sexual tension when they tried to pull the headlight bulb out of Nicole Kidman's R32 and it wouldn't quite budge was intense. Many teenage wet dreams were had.

(I'm not quite sure if you are taking the piss but I'm just going to go along with it. If you are not I'd love to hear where you are coming from)

[joshuaho96]

On 5/2/2022 at 10:14 AM, TurboTapin said:

Was this verified and signed off by an independent lab? If not, you're a mad man. As already mentioned, you might think you see better but in reality you don't. Your eyes are probably lying to you.

The Tom Cruise movie "Eyes wide shut" was actually based on this exact situation. 

When multiple sources I've found with actual photometric testing have found that the light output from putting LEDs in housings not designed for it is garbage I'm going to trust the photometric testing. I get that the whole "don't believe your own eyes" thing is pretty much textbook questionable but the US/SAE headlight regulations are written in blood. The same is true of the ADRs, CMVSS, and ECE equivalent regulations. If it were up to me I would get a Mini D2S retrofit. I'm not a huge fan of Morimoto projectors but they're better than LEDs shoved in one of the very first projector headlight designs ever released to market.

[TurboTapin]

On 5/2/2022 at 5:53 PM, soviet_merlin said:

I forgot all about that! That sexual tension when they tried to pull the headlight bulb out of Nicole Kidman's R32 and it wouldn't quite budge was intense. Many teenage wet dreams were had.

(I'm not quite sure if you are taking the piss but I'm just going to go along with it. If you are not I'd love to hear where you are coming from)

Haha we're on the same page!

[TurboTapin]

On 5/2/2022 at 6:11 PM, joshuaho96 said:

When multiple sources I've found with actual photometric testing have found that the light output from putting LEDs in housings not designed for it is garbage I'm going to trust the photometric testing. I get that the whole "don't believe your own eyes" thing is pretty much textbook questionable but the US/SAE headlight regulations are written in blood. The same is true of the ADRs, CMVSS, and ECE equivalent regulations. If it were up to me I would get a Mini D2S retrofit. I'm not a huge fan of Morimoto projectors but they're better than LEDs shoved in one of the very first projector headlight designs ever released to market.

I agree 100% with you. OEM R32 projectors were not originally designed for LED bulbs, nor should you expect it to be anywhere close to perfect or comparable to 2022 LED projectors. 

But with that being said, I still saw a very drastic improvement. I can actually see further then 5 feet in front of me. I would recommend it to anyone and everyone who owns an R32 and one of the cheapest/greatest things I did to my car. 

It's an improvement that may not be perfect, but it's an improvement nonetheless. 

 

[joshuaho96]

On 5/2/2022 at 4:23 PM, TurboTapin said:

I agree 100% with you. OEM R32 projectors were not originally designed for LED bulbs, nor should you expect it to be anywhere close to perfect or comparable to 2022 LED projectors. 

But with that being said, I still saw a very drastic improvement. I can actually see further then 5 feet in front of me. I would recommend it to anyone and everyone who owns an R32 and one of the cheapest/greatest things I did to my car. 

It's an improvement that may not be perfect, but it's an improvement nonetheless. 

 

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ especially in Canada the beam flares the wrong way. I try not to drive my Skyline at night right now because it still has the stock halogens which are acceptably bright but are totally not ok to be using on LHD/RHT roads. I'm a crazy person though as one of the first things I did after buying an R33 was buy a set of series 3 HIDs, then have it sent out to have it disassembled and a mirrored cutoff shield installed on the factory projector. I have my doubts about whether this would actually test well photometrically but I figure it can't be that bad compared to something like a Morimoto projector.

[GTSBoy]

On 5/3/2022 at 4:28 PM, joshuaho96 said:

it can't be that bad compared to something like a Morimoto projector.

What you talkin' about Willis? You can v. easily buy LHD Morimotos..... and there is nothing on the outer lens to change the cutoff/beam shape created by the projector and its internals.