Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[Trozzle]

Simon R32 (the one running Kando T67) was making 299rwkw with an ATR43 on an RB20, E42.5 (50% sucrogen E85, 50% BP Ultimate 98 I believe). He is from Perth.

[Hanaldo]

Thanks Trozzle, I'll PM him.

Anyone know of anyone running a more similar setup to mine? I'll talk to Simon but it's a bit hard to compare an RB20 running on E42 and what I imagine is an ATR43G3 to an RB25 Neo on Pump 98 with a G2 profile...

Edited March 31, 2011 by Hanaldo

[SimonR32]

I ran my ATR43G3 0.63 on BP98 initially...

It went 350hp on allstar hub dyno and then we took it across the road to hyperdrive and it made 320rwhp... But every run at hyperdrive it made more and more power, like to the extent that first run it made 260rwhp second run 290rwhp and third 320rwhp (then got told that was enough). I guess that's what happens when you don't strap down properly because it's been tuned by a different workshop

[Crans]

Take Stao up on his offer to send you his turbo( He said he will send it to you first, before receiving yours) and do the swap.

If your worried about costs I'm up for a tinker and am willing to help you do the swap over. I have installed and removed my ATR43G3 a few timers now pretty easy to do.

If Stao's turbo makes no difference then yeah maybe look at other issues or even replacing the turbo.

I'm also having issue with my turbo and Stao has been great in helping me. Currently I suspect the issue is with the actuator i put on the turbo(Not supplied by stao) but stupid me lost a arm for the original actuator so nothing to swap it with now.

Couldnt say a bad thing about his customer service.

[Harey]

The turbo has so far cost me $3950, that's including time on the dyno trying to get it sorted not just installing it. Installation and initial tune cost me $1600 including complete custom intake and intercooler plumbing. I had to get everything custom made, not just the hard intake pipe. Since then it has cost me $700 in dyno time and $200 in labor time.

Bit unfair blaming the turbo on the fact you needed to get all custom intercooler piping. Why cant you stay with the standard intercooler piping?

The hard intake pipe is required for any turbo you choose and you can simply reuse it.

The labour to install the injectors is required no matter which turbo you use.

In my opinion the only money you have wasted because of the turbo is the labour to fit the turbo and tuning.

[Harey]

Stock standard RB25DET Neo

PWR 650CC injectors

Walbro GSS-342 (rewired to run direct from battery)

Greddy FMIC

Full 3" turbo back straight cut custom exhaust with high flow cat and bellmouth dump pipe (Was actually quieter without the exhaust on, and as results show there is no restriction here)

Apexi pod filter

Z32 AFM

3" custom metal intake pipe

Stock GTR bov

NGK Iridiums gapped to 0.8mm

Greddy Profec II EBC

ATR43G2 .63

NIStune ECU

Those mods sound good. What about coil packs?

[urtwhistle]

Hyperdrives dyno is known to read a bit lower, I'm not so worried about the number. If I look in the WA power registry at graphs of cars with similar mods to mine when it had the stock turbo they also only made about 250rwhp on a Dyno Dynamics dyno. That's why I want to see someone from Perth using one of these turbos, so I can see how they went with it.

What I'm disappointed with is the seat of the pants feeling. It doesn't feel fast. It feels like the graph looks, you can feel the turbo at 4000rpm and then it just goes flat and feels like it has stopped boosting. It doesn't hold boost very well, even using the wastegate studs and with the high pressure actuator and Greddy Profec 2.

I don't know where else to look except at the turbo. We have checked everything that could cause it to hit a wall and flatten out like that. The only thing left to try would be to unbolt the turbo and try a different one, but quite frankly I'm annoyed at having spent so much money on this turbo as is. All my intake piping had to be custom made to make this turbo fit, now I would have to redo all that if I want to fit a different turbo.

Looking back, this turbo hasn't achieved any of the objectives I bought it for. I wanted a cost effective alternative to one of the big brand name Jap turbos, but now this turbo has cost me more than what I would have paid for a HKS or Garrett. I wanted something that bolted onto the stock setup and looked relatively stock, but that went out the window with all the custom piping, now the turbo is the first thing you notice when you open the bonnet. And I wanted a turbo that was responsive and could make at least 350rwhp. No comment needed.

Hey Hanaldo, You have had the same problems as me. I was constantly trying to figure why my car never made as much power as the cars over east. I would love to see my car run up on 1 of the dyno's from east and then drop it straight on to hyperdrive's and see the real difference. In the end don't get too hung up on the power figure, as thats all it is. I know of a 33 with a genuwine Garret 3071 that struggled to crack 300hp on hyperdrives dyno.

So i'm stoked with my Rb3025 with 1 of Stao's 3576's that only makes 370hp and it goes like freight train.

[wisey18]

From yesterdays installation: Hard intake pipe to suit stock air box.

This is a intake pipe for all ATR43G1/G2/SS-x units, can be used to work with high flows as well. Its made from:

2x 3inches 45 degrees silicon hoses, 1x 90 degrees 3inches metal pipe and 1x flange adaptor (same as stock pod adaptor). Every thing appeard to be pretty stock on turbo side.

Haven't had the car tunned yet, on road it feels very smooth and responsive similar to SS-2. I'm expecting it to sit around the 260rwkws mark. I will also do a test on the impact of having AFM on front of the turbo.

Hanaldo: The one you've got with wastegate controller would be the late 2010 model same as what I've got on now, but it doesn't feel like yours. Please do a quick check on your actuator and make sure the wastegate is shut with actuator preloaded, it looks like if there's a wastegate leak, instructions are on page 49.

How can we get this setup to suit an R34 with the AFM/airbox in the stock location with say an SS-2?

[Randon_I_Am]

I was in the middle of posting a pic of my engine bay before I got interrupted, its possible trust me...

I'll get a pic up when I can.

[Rolls]

Injectors are fine, had them ultrasonically cleaned and flow tested and they came up at 98-99% across all 6.

Andrew did try pulling timing to stop it pinging but it just didn't want to make more power, the power dipped when he pulled timing no matter how much boost he ran.

I would organise to swap the turbo then, I don't know of any other manufacturer to offer to send one before getting yours back.

The pinging over 16psi due to heat sounds like its related to the issue, maybe something to do with the wastegate, perhaps it isn't sealing properly due to some sort of defect causing the lag and then lack of power due to something restricting it or stopping it working as expect.

I would at least drop the dump and confirm the wastegate opens and closes properly and there's no obstruction in there, if not then send it back.

Is it possible your manifold is cracked/leaking/not sealing properly? Can't see this causing the pinging/heat issue though.

Edited March 31, 2011 by Rolls

[Hanaldo]

Bit unfair blaming the turbo on the fact you needed to get all custom intercooler piping. Why cant you stay with the standard intercooler piping?

The hard intake pipe is required for any turbo you choose and you can simply reuse it.

The labour to install the injectors is required no matter which turbo you use.

In my opinion the only money you have wasted because of the turbo is the labour to fit the turbo and tuning.

Well the intercooler piping needed to be done because the turbo didn't fit with what was on the car. I put the 25DET engine in my car, it was originally an NA so it never had the standard piping. Used the piping that came with the FMIC kit and that didn't fit with the turbo so it needed to be custom made.

I was always going to get the hard intake pipe made. Labour to install the injectors was like $60, they were straight plug and play so didn't cost much. I'm not saying I have wasted every penny of that $4000, as you said the only real waste has been time spent on the dyno. Other than that I have just needed to spend a lot more than I thought I would.

Stock standard RB25DET Neo

PWR 650CC injectors

Walbro GSS-342 (rewired to run direct from battery)

Greddy FMIC

Full 3" turbo back straight cut custom exhaust with high flow cat and bellmouth dump pipe (Was actually quieter without the exhaust on, and as results show there is no restriction here)

Apexi pod filter

Z32 AFM

3" custom metal intake pipe

Stock GTR bov

NGK Iridiums gapped to 0.8mm

Greddy Profec II EBC

ATR43G2 .63

NIStune ECU

Those mods sound good. What about coil packs?

Knew I had forgotten something, I've got Splitfire coilpacks as well.

Hey Hanaldo, You have had the same problems as me. I was constantly trying to figure why my car never made as much power as the cars over east. I would love to see my car run up on 1 of the dyno's from east and then drop it straight on to hyperdrive's and see the real difference. In the end don't get too hung up on the power figure, as thats all it is. I know of a 33 with a genuwine Garret 3071 that struggled to crack 300hp on hyperdrives dyno.

So i'm stoked with my Rb3025 with 1 of Stao's 3576's that only makes 370hp and it goes like freight train.

Yeh I do agree, I'm not overly concerned with the number it spits out. But the car doesn't feel fast. It feels laggy coming onto boost and lazy on full boost. I hardly noticed a difference over the stock turbo except it is much more laggy.

Rolls, haven't checked the manifold for cracks. As you said, it doesn't really seem related to the issue. I'll have a look anyway though. I also doubt it is an issue with the wastegate given that when run at 16psi it holds fine. The graph still confuses me, if you compare it to other ATR graphs then you can almost follow the same curve up to 4000rpm and then it just hits a wall and stops making power.

If nobody can think of anything that we haven't already tried then I would gladly take Stao up on his offer. If I do take him up on that, am I fine swapping the turbo myself and driving it to my tuner (wouldn't boost it), or would it be better to get Andrew to swap the turbos?

Edited March 31, 2011 by Hanaldo

[Rolls]

Swap the turbo yourself, it isn't that hard and you'll save the $500 labour any work shop will charge you, all you need is a new dump gasket as your nuts should still be fine after bugger all use. Once you've done it once it isn't too bad, hardest bit I found was getting the coolant line back in as it doesn't flex and isn't that easy to get to, you should be able to do it in 2 hours max though.

[hypergear]

Well if the wastegate is slightly open when its supposed to be shut then that acts as a massive exhaust manifold leak. Sure it will still opens when boost hits, but it will require most pressure to maintain the same shaft speed. This makes it hard to controll boost and mega laggy. It take less then 5 mints to find out and easy to adjust. Instructions are in page 49, Do check that out.

[Rolls]

What about it not taking more than 16psi and pinging as if theres too much exhaust heat from backpressure? sounds like something is blocked in the turbo itself.

[DVS JEZ]

Won"t run at all with the 02 sensor connected? Thats suss

[Hanaldo]

Well if the wastegate is slightly open when its supposed to be shut then that acts as a massive exhaust manifold leak. Sure it will still opens when boost hits, but it will require most pressure to maintain the same shaft speed. This makes it hard to controll boost and mega laggy. It take less then 5 mints to find out and easy to adjust. Instructions are in page 49, Do check that out.

I watched the video but how do i know if the wastegate is fully shut? And how do I know where to adjust it to?

Won"t run at all with the 02 sensor connected? Thats suss

Yeh I didn't actually see it running with the 02 sensor connected so I'm not 100% sure what he means, he just said the car idled badly and refused to rev when the 02 sensor was plugged in. Not sure if that has anything to do with the issue or if the sensor is just stuffed, he told me not to worry about it because he tuned around it anyway.

[hypergear]

1. Undo the E-clip on the wastegate arm (don't lose it)

2. pop the extender out and lose up the positioning nut

3. Rotate the extender clock wise (to make the rod shorter) to about half a hole sorter then where the arm is.

4. Force the extender back onto the wastegate arm, put E clip back in and job is done.

How can we get this setup to suit an R34 with the AFM/airbox in the stock location with say an SS-2?

I can supply the silicon hoses for $20 each (total $40). Get a short 90 degrees elblow pipe from your local exhaust shop ($20). and few 3inch clamps. Note you won't need the adaptor part if you are using an AFM on front of the turbo. It will fit all ATR43 series with a 3inch inlet.

[Hanaldo]

1. Undo the E-clip on the wastegate arm (don't lose it)

2. pop the extender out and lose up the positioning nut

3. Rotate the extender clock wise (to make the rod shorter) to about half a hole sorter then where the arm is.

4. Force the extender back onto the wastegate arm, put E clip back in and job is done.

Ok great, thanks for that. I will double check that in the morning. However is this likely to cause the heat build up and pinging over 16psi?

Also a side note, is the ATR43G2 rated to 450hp at the flywheel? Would that not translate to roughly 300rwhp which is almost what my car is making?

[GTScotT]

Ok great, thanks for that. I will double check that in the morning. However is this likely to cause the heat build up and pinging over 16psi?

Also a side note, is the ATR43G2 rated to 450hp at the flywheel? Would that not translate to roughly 300rwhp which is almost what my car is making?

Your definitely not going to lose 150hp through the drivetrain. More like 50 - 80 max.

So you really should be seeing an easy 260rwkw from this turbo, which is more like 350-360rwhp.

I have definitely got faith in Stao's products for the outcome he advertises them to produce, and his customer service is near second to none. You should definitely take him up on the offer of swapping his result proven turbo with yours, it will rule out ANY further question in the turbo itself. Like Stao has already told you, its not impossible that the turbo is faulty however it is far more likely that you have another problem somewhere else. I fully support Stao on this notion, and feel you may need to engage another workshop (after you have swapped turbos with him).

Can I ask what dump pipe you have on the car? Direct from the turbo to the cat, who makes the item and can you take a photo?

[Randon_I_Am]

OK here's the post i started last page and got interrupted.

Hanaldo, hang in there! Take Stao up on his offer to send you a working tested turbo, swap it over yourself. drive it in to the dyno and get it tuned. If there aren't any more problems, and the tune is half done already then it shouldn't take more than 2 max hours on the dyno.

As for the power, I have an ATR43G2 .82 making PULP 270rwkw with boost dropping down to 15psi, E-Flex making 290rwkw with boost dropping down to 13.5 psi. I didn't even bother with setting my boost controller up on E-Flex to hold it higher...

All on a Dyno Dynamics Dyno.

And about your statement about buying this turbo for it's bolt on and concealiability. Here's a couple of pics of my engine bay. Remember this is a 290rwkw engine bay.

So yes you can make this turbo look very stock.