Would A Track/race Gtr Be Faster With No 4Wd?

[Risking]

Why do it with an r33.

R34 rollers are scarce but fairly cheap.

Building something like it won't really fit many categories so why waste time and effort with an RB when there is a much larger cap inline 6 floating around now days with much more to offer.

Hang on sounds like the car I've got in the build.......

[Risking]

Why do it with an r33.

R34 rollers are scarce but fairly cheap.

Building something like it won't really fit many categories so why waste time and effort with an RB when there is a much larger cap inline 6 floating around now days with much more to offer.

Hang on sounds like the car I've got in the build.......

[Roy]

I am not too sure Skyline owners are very good at math Some of the do this and do that for all less then 25k etc seems waaay optimistic.

I think the GTR will win in most conditions, however I think a rwd platform that is 200kgs lighter can be as quick, if not quicker in some circumstances. There is always the issue of what you can do yourself and what you do with the car. AWD is a pretty big bandaid

[Russman]

It seems that a GTR in rwd form, purpose built that way would more then likely be better then a straight gtst. Purely due to the car having a better all round setup from factory. Slightly wider track, provision to run bigger wheels/tires which is quite important. This is severely limiting in a gtst. The most obvious one being the stance of the gtr makes it looks a hell of alot tougher then a gtst!

Have you seen the stance on my car? I'm running wider track than most GTR's. Not exactly pretty but it's a race car.

Wasn't at all expensive but you probably guessed that

[Risking]

I am not too sure Skyline owners are very good at math Some of the do this and do that for all less then 25k etc seems waaay optimistic.

I think the GTR will win in most conditions, however I think a rwd platform that is 200kgs lighter can be as quick, if not quicker in some circumstances. There is always the issue

of what you can do yourself and what you do with the car. AWD is a pretty big bandaid

I couldn't agree more with your first paragraph.

[Risking]

It can be done on a tight budget if you rummage around for parts or have heaps of gear lying around.

Those cars end up as shit boxes that never lap near their potential though.

To physically go out and buy parts/knowledge costs.

I've outlined budgets for people then told them to double it to finish the car.

[Tangles]

Would love to comment - but Ive never tracked mine (R32 GTst Sedan, fresh forged/cam'd RB26dett); its for sale as per link below

[black bnr32]

what motor are you running in your 34, risking?

[bigmikespec]

Just to add, I guess if you take the line that you already have a R33 GTR (i.e. like I do) and then you make a decision one way or another. Sorry, just to keep the thread on a lead.

[djr81]

First thread start in this section so please be gentle.

Thinking about track/race only R32/R33/R34 GTR's with no 4WD... is the trade off between the weight lost at the front without the front diff., drive shafts and also transfer case behind the gearbox be a greater advantage over the 4WD grip?

When you consider when you remove the front sump/diff. you could fit a custom shallow dry sump oil pan, without the transfer case you could fit a ex-Supertaxi seq. box without worrying about the transfer case.

The GT cars in Japan were all rear wheel drive only be it for rules or reliability.

What are peoples thoughts?

The trade off for the weight loss of the 4WD system is a slower lap time, ie remove the system and go slower. Dont waste your time just to struggle with the other GTST's.

Oh and by the way the "supertaxi" gearbox is a Holinger. Originally designed to fit in a - wait for it - R32 GTR. True story.

[fatz]

my shitheap r32 is quite cheap

does pay to have parts lieing around though and spare time to put them on

see how it goes lap times this year

[r33_racer]

I am not too sure Skyline owners are very good at math Some of the do this and do that for all less then 25k etc seems waaay optimistic.

I think the GTR will win in most conditions, however I think a rwd platform that is 200kgs lighter can be as quick, if not quicker in some circumstances. There is always the issue of what you can do yourself and what you do with the car. AWD is a pretty big bandaid

Roy, that post is spot on!

[iplen]

Name a race series where awd has not been outlawed, or is not the only way to win. Sierra was more than 200kgs lighter and had similar hp (towards the end) and got smashed.

ATCC-We all know what happened there

BTCC- awd had about 100kg penalty, then got banned

JGTC- awd outlawed

WRC- 2wd last won a round in late 90s

Superlap- awd dominating..

The list goes on..

[mad082]

Name a race series where awd has not been outlawed, or is not the only way to win. Sierra was more than 200kgs lighter and had similar hp (towards the end) and got smashed.

ATCC-We all know what happened there

BTCC- awd had about 100kg penalty, then got banned

JGTC- awd outlawed

WRC- 2wd last won a round in late 90s

Superlap- awd dominating..

The list goes on..

it also only ran 9" wide tyres while the GTR ran 11" wide tyres, so you can't accurately compare the 2. they were in different classes.

in the rwd vs awd argument it is worth considering the performance/lap times of the rwd porsches vs the awd 911 turbo. you will find that in most cases the 911 turbo (awd) is slower than the lighter, less powerful GT3. have a look through the nurburgring lap times and you will see that the 911 turbo comes in after the GT2 (rwd, but has more power), the carrera GT (obviously) and the GT3 RS (lighter, less pwoerful, RWD)

[Brodie.Maher]

There are way to many factors here.

Your never going to be able to drive a 800Hp GTS on Hard semi slicks... Obviously the class you want to run in will always be the biggest factor.

Say you do want a high HP GTS to run in Time attack with Semi-Slicks,

The GTS will obviously be struggling with corner exit and to help with this and the over-all drivability of the car you will have to make it squat, move around and soft. In turn reducing the good entry and mid corner speed you have just gained through the RWD platform and even still its going to be a handful, with half the amount of off the corner grip available in a GTR. When setting up a car you can only ever have two of the 3 aspects of a corner (Entry - Mid - Exit), corner exit should always be once of the chosen traits of the car. This will even be a more important trait of a car on semi-slicks because its the hardest trait to set a car up for with minimal grip, hence the domination of 4WD cars in the time attack series. Its interesting many people say 4WD induces understeer, i believe this is a common misconception, possibly caused by bad driving, bad setup, a combination of both or just the wrong style of driving suited best for a 4WD car. Mark Skaife described the Winfield R32 GTR to have the best turn in out of any car he has ever driven, it must also be noted that this car had minimal aero; go figure.

I'm also very doubtful if the GTS will weigh much less than a GTR, with high horsepower applications you will need a GTR rear end, Holinger Box, a solid tail shaft and diff. Brad Sherriffs R32 GTS in race spec, even fully lightened, Carbon Doors Etc, weighs the best part of 1350Kg

There has also been mention of the GT500 cars being RWD, firstly its a requirement, secondly; you must remember in GT500 the cars must be only 500hp and run slicks, making mechanical off the corner grip not the biggest of issues. These cars are also driven by some of the most experienced, accurate, precise and talented drivers in the world. I'm very doubtful that many drivers would have the talent to make a high horsepower GTS fast.

Yes a GTS has a lot of Pros, Reliability, Easier setups, cheaper Etc but for outright speed GTR will always dominate.

[bigmikespec]

Nice reply, thanks.

[brad 110]

who ever "risking" is he sounds wise, experienced and knowledgable, he qoutes you just carnt keep front diffs in them, which is correct in moderate to big hp racecars (650 plus on race tyres) so is if reliablity is an issue (which it is front diff, front shaft) wise then is the subject reffering to 1 lap wonders or time attack style racing?

Out of intrest who has run there gtr at either philip island, calder or sandown?

[Ant97GTR]

Out of intrest who has run there gtr at either philip island, calder or sandown?

Puts hand up for all three......why do you ask?

[brad 110]

was just wondering what times you fast guys are rattling out over there now as its been a good couple of years since ive run anything at those track and at the time 1.43 on a radial at the island and 1.16 and sandown and 63 or 4 s was the goods at calder, whats the goods these day

[Roy]

Those times still hold true for a fast GTR. Problem is there aren't any track only GTRs running around Vic...Most are fast street/track cars which are still 1-2 sec off the times you posted as full weight street cars on semis