rb25det HyperGear vs Pulsar Turbo RB25DET

[Eric0]

Hi! 
 

I’m looking to replace my current turbo on my S1 RB25DET in order to make 600HP but maintain responsiveness. I’m looking at the HyperGear ATR43SS-3 in T3 .63 A/R or the Pulsar PSR3576 Gen2 T3 .82 A/R. I’m still learning how turbo sizes effect lag, response, and power band. I’m looking to see if anyone can share their experience with either of these turbos or can recommend another to meet my goal?

These are my mods:

• Running 91 octane most of the time and occasionally E85 on track days

• top mount twin scroll manifold 
• 44mm external wastage 
• 1300CC fuel injectors 
• mishimoto intercooler M-line 
• 3in intercooler pipes 
• g-reddy intake manifold 
• link g4+ 
• NZWiring trigger kit 
• GTR R35 coilpacks 
•  built bottom and top 
• 4” down-pipe and exhaust 

Edited October 9, 2024 by Eric0
Added type of engine

[Duncan]

Hey Eric, it will help to put your location in your profile. 91 Octane is the lowest quality fuel available in Australia so I'm thinking maybe you mean US 91 not Australian

[Eric0]

30 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Hey Eric, it will help to put your location in your profile. 91 Octane is the lowest quality fuel available in Australia so I'm thinking maybe you mean US 91 not Australian

Hi! That is correct. 91 Octane US. probably similar to P98 AUS. 
 

I’ll update my location 

[GTSBoy]

93US is 98RON. 91 is a little on the low side to try to push to 600HP, but at least you can control boost to something more conservative when you're not on the good stuff.

Also, we should check. Is that 600HP at the flywheel? Or using the usual pony power yielded by US roller dynos?

[Eric0]

10 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

93US is 98RON. 91 is a little on the low side to try to push to 600HP, but at least you can control boost to something more conservative when you're not on the good stuff.

Also, we should check. Is that 600HP at the flywheel? Or using the usual pony power yielded by US roller dynos?

 Gotcha! Thank you for the correction. 
 

The goal would be 600 bald eagle (screech) pony power yielded on a roller dyno, but I’m more interested in responsiveness at low RPM and full-boost before 4000RPM. 
 

[Duncan]

well....I'm no turbo selection expert so I'll leave that to others, looks like you've got what you need from a supporting mods side though including the twin scroll manifold; that means you really want a twin scroll turbo to not waste the advantage, it will make the same boost/power a couple of hundred rpm sooner than a single scroll turbo

[Eric0]

12 minutes ago, Duncan said:

well....I'm no turbo selection expert so I'll leave that to others, looks like you've got what you need from a supporting mods side though including the twin scroll manifold; that means you really want a twin scroll turbo to not waste the advantage, it will make the same boost/power a couple of hundred rpm sooner than a single scroll turbo

Awesome! Thank you for the confirmation. We’ll see if anyone has experience with HyperGear, Pulsar, or other turbo brands with good response and overall power. 
 

After more research, I’m leaning towards the HyperGear ATR43SS3 ProR with .63 turbine. This a dyno graph from an RB25DET Neo with following mods:

• 1650cc injectors

• adaptronic plug-in ECU

• 600x300x81mm Intercooler

• 3in exhaust 

• 4in downpipe 

• R35 GTR Coilpacks 

• twin scroll manifold 

• twin 50mm wastegate 

 

What do you think?

[Kinkstaah]

Honestly:

Buy a name brand turbo. Garrett or Borg Warner. Anything else you will be chasing "but why doesn't mine end up like the dyno graphs the sellers post?"

Buying a brand name turbo gets your result right where other people with the same turbo experience.

Also, 600whp in any country - expect your engine to become a consumable. If you're okay with that and can plan for that then all the power to you. Also consider your clutch will suck and your grip will be less than stellar.

Aim at 450whp. You'll have a better car and more fun actually using it, and it'll probably be faster for every scenario with the one exception being drag launching it on drag radials at a drag strip where you might be a tenth faster.

Sincerely,
Wiser, cooler heads.

 

[joshuaho96]

2 hours ago, Kinkstaah said:

Honestly:

Buy a name brand turbo. Garrett or Borg Warner. Anything else you will be chasing "but why doesn't mine end up like the dyno graphs the sellers post?"

Buying a brand name turbo gets your result right where other people with the same turbo experience.

Also, 600whp in any country - expect your engine to become a consumable. If you're okay with that and can plan for that then all the power to you. Also consider your clutch will suck and your grip will be less than stellar.

Aim at 450whp. You'll have a better car and more fun actually using it, and it'll probably be faster for every scenario with the one exception being drag launching it on drag radials at a drag strip where you might be a tenth faster.

Sincerely,
Wiser, cooler heads.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y3mHN8HbG

This is about 450 whp and it's keeping up with a modern GT3 RS. Obviously some caveats to that but I think our brains are all broken by modern car power numbers. It's really everything around the engine that needs to be up to scratch. This particular R32 last time had some random BBK on it and clearly it wasn't good enough because he switched it to AP Racing for this go around. I'm reliably surprised by how much the little things matter when you're modifying cars. Every last detail is critical.

[GTSBoy]

That video is gooooone.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

41 minutes ago, joshuaho96 said:

I'm reliably surprised by how much the little things matter when you're modifying cars. Every last detail is critical.

Yep, like how people insist VCT does nothing, delete them OR say how twin scroll is a waste of time.

[joshuaho96]

2 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

That video is gooooone.

Oops, guess I accidentally deleted the last digit of the video ID.

1 hour ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Yep, like how people insist VCT does nothing, delete them OR say how twin scroll is a waste of time.

This one drives me nuts. VCT is such a big advantage for basic driveability and it costs very little to do. It's not like we're dealing with an E60 M5 with its dedicated high pressure VVT oil pump + hydraulic line carrying 1000+ psi and all that fun stuff.

I also see a lot of people speak poorly about EGR and try to delete it in modern GDI engines. The problem is modern GDI relies on cooled high pressure EGR to improve timing margin at high load + RPM. So unless you're compensating for it by raising octane you have to completely retune when it's deleted.

Edited October 10, 2024 by joshuaho96

[Eric0]

5 hours ago, Kinkstaah said:

Honestly:

Buy a name brand turbo. Garrett or Borg Warner. Anything else you will be chasing "but why doesn't mine end up like the dyno graphs the sellers post?"

Buying a brand name turbo gets your result right where other people with the same turbo experience.

Also, 600whp in any country - expect your engine to become a consumable. If you're okay with that and can plan for that then all the power to you. Also consider your clutch will suck and your grip will be less than stellar.

Aim at 450whp. You'll have a better car and more fun actually using it, and it'll probably be faster for every scenario with the one exception being drag launching it on drag radials at a drag strip where you might be a tenth faster.

Sincerely,
Wiser, cooler heads.

 

This was amazing and something I feel like a lot of younger enthusiasts, like myself, need to hear. I've been observing a local dyno shop spitting out 650-800HP RBs but when looking at their graphs, the car is basically dead until 5-6k RPM when it skyrockets.  
 

I’ve decided to change my goal and go for that 450whp mark and aim for quick spool, responsiveness, and practicality (I can't afford my engine being a consumable, haha).

Now, looking for the best suitable turbo for this application, I'm considering:

• Garett GTX3076R Gen 2 ( .62 or .82)

• Garrett GTX3576R Gen 2  ( .62 or .82), room for improvement later?

• HyperGear ATR43SS2 ( .62 or .82)

• Pulsar PSR3076  ( .62 or .82)

• Pulsar PSR3576 ( .62 or .82), room for improvement later?

Any recommendations? I know the HyperGear and Pulsar aren’t name brands but they’re sure budget friendly  

 

[joshuaho96]

22 minutes ago, Eric0 said:

This was amazing and something I feel like a lot of younger enthusiasts, like myself, need to hear. I've been observing a local dyno shop spitting out 650-800HP RBs but when looking at their graphs, the car is basically dead until 5-6k RPM when it skyrockets.  
 

I’ve decided to change my goal and go for that 450whp mark and aim for quick spool, responsiveness, and practicality (I can't afford my engine being a consumable, haha).

Now, looking for the best suitable turbo for this application, I'm considering:

• Garett GTX3076R Gen 2 ( .62 or .82)

• Garrett GTX3576R Gen 2  ( .62 or .82), room for improvement later?

• HyperGear ATR43SS2 ( .62 or .82)

• Pulsar PSR3076  ( .62 or .82)

• Pulsar PSR3576 ( .62 or .82), room for improvement later?

Any recommendations? I know the HyperGear and Pulsar aren’t name brands but they’re sure budget friendly  

 

If you had to pick between Pulsar and Hypergear I would probably go Hypergear. 

[Kinkstaah]

G25/30 Series. Nobody seems to run a BW EFR anymore, and not at a 320kw power level on 95 gas. I did back in the day on a RB28, I don't think anyone ever ran a 7163 on a RB25. That said, a G series is going to be much easier to fit being physically smaller which is more helpful than you might think. 

The turbo is the only thing that really adds power to the car. It is the most important of all selections. Do not skimp on it. If it's a budget issue, save longer. The difference between a G series and these other options will be like 5% when all is said and done. What's an extra $1000 now when you look at it through the lens of all the $ already spent to support..... the turbo to do its job well.  I see it in LS worlds too, where they spend $50,000 on the motor to run 2x $300 ebay china turbos on the f**kin thing.

With engine consumables, well - they all are. Just less with less power. It's either already rebuilt...
.....or it's a 25 year old engine you are wanting to boost to (at least) 200% of stock power.

It would be very wise to consider what the plan is, and be ready for it, when something does go south. Don't be that guy with a just completed-now-broken-car because you didn't budget for things to go wrong, which is how a low of projects end up sadly.

[GTSBoy]

None of the above. G30 660. Call it done. Or, BW EFR, or one of the other similar modern options.

In the BWs we're talking EFR 7670 with the twinscroll turbine housing. Sorta good for 650HP at the flywheel, which should be more than enough. Broadly speaking it's equivalent to the G30 660.

None of this is cheap like the OP's original options, though.

The PSR3576 is also a bit larger than the new power target would suggest using.

The ATR43SS3 was always a smaller choice than the PSR. 600 fly vs 750 fly. So they weren't ever comparable options. I would think the ATR43SS2 or 3 would do what is (now) wanted, especially if E85 is the path to making the target. Tao's own recco is for an SS2 on E85 for 340rwkW, which is almost exactly on target. The SS3 would have more headroom, but it really demands a 4" inlet. I would probably try Tao's reccomended turbo at <1/3 the price of the name brand stuff I suggested above.

[Dasmbo]

Hi Eric i have been us the same turbo only internally gated Wolf 550 ecu with 660cc injectors kelford cams running on Australian 98 ron unleaded fuel with forged bottom end and Lewis ported and flowed stage 3 head at 473hp at wheels with 15 pounds boost for the past 9+ years and i have next zero lag and always fun to drive. I cant see any reason for you not getting the output numbers your wanting.    

[Eric0]

9 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

None of the above. G30 660. Call it done. Or, BW EFR, or one of the other similar modern options.

In the BWs we're talking EFR 7670 with the twinscroll turbine housing. Sorta good for 650HP at the flywheel, which should be more than enough. Broadly speaking it's equivalent to the G30 660.

None of this is cheap like the OP's original options, though.

The PSR3576 is also a bit larger than the new power target would suggest using.

The ATR43SS3 was always a smaller choice than the PSR. 600 fly vs 750 fly. So they weren't ever comparable options. I would think the ATR43SS2 or 3 would do what is (now) wanted, especially if E85 is the path to making the target. Tao's own recco is for an SS2 on E85 for 340rwkW, which is almost exactly on target. The SS3 would have more headroom, but it really demands a 4" inlet. I would probably try Tao's reccomended turbo at <1/3 the price of the name brand stuff I suggested above.

I’m starting to lean towards the Garrett G30-660 but wondering what exhaust housing I should select for the 450-550 power range with quick spool. 
 

Any thoughts on this?

Edited October 10, 2024 by Eric0
Updated power goal

[Eric0]

Okay! 
 

I bought a Garrett G30-660 supercore!

I’m thinking of parring the G30-660 with a T3 .82 twinscroll. What do you think? 

Any advantages in spooling if I stepped down to .62? Seems like it would restrict the engine to about 400hp 

[GTSBoy]

0.82 is good.