Is Hsv W427 Worth $150k-$170k?

[ctjet]

that taxi will kick y0 ass

lol

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

4 dr skylines and cefiro's have been taxi's too you know...

[Roy]

Adam and those bashing Holdens. What is the population of Japan, how many automakers? What is Australia's population and how many car makers do we have?

Australia has a proud history of making sport sedans, performance saloons, GTR cars, whatever you want to call them. We like hot rods and its what our manufacturers are good at, it just so happens its all they can really do given the dollars.

The GTR is a all out purpose built sports car. The HSV is a hot rodded sedan, i love the fact that the cars are re-engineered mass produced cars. They are a different challenge to build, to drive and they appeal to different people. They are infinitely tunable unlike the European makes...so, anyway. I love cars, all cars.

Would i buy this...nope. Would i buy the Coupe should they build it...FARK YEH! Either that or the new Camaro thankyou.

I think some people feel better when they bash Holdens, each to their own i suppose. I can certainly see their appeal and i dont doubt HSV will sell them in a flash. The VL Walkinshaw could not be given away in its day, much like the R32 GTR. Look at what the VL is worth alongside a GTR

[B-Man]

I love my 6.2L Taxi - yep, even more than the two skylines I have had. And the Cosmo, and the Rx7

he he

[m3gtr]

Adam and those bashing Holdens. What is the population of Japan, how many automakers? What is Australia's population and how many car makers do we have?

Australia has a proud history of making sport sedans, performance saloons, GTR cars, whatever you want to call them. We like hot rods and its what our manufacturers are good at, it just so happens its all they can really do given the dollars.

The GTR is a all out purpose built sports car. The HSV is a hot rodded sedan, i love the fact that the cars are re-engineered mass produced cars. They are a different challenge to build, to drive and they appeal to different people. They are infinitely tunable unlike the European makes...so, anyway. I love cars, all cars.

Would i buy this...nope. Would i buy the Coupe should they build it...FARK YEH! Either that or the new Camaro thankyou.

I think some people feel better when they bash Holdens, each to their own i suppose. I can certainly see their appeal and i dont doubt HSV will sell them in a flash. The VL Walkinshaw could not be given away in its day, much like the R32 GTR. Look at what the VL is worth alongside a GTR

Roy, the point i was trying to make was that this "commodore" has the badge "holden" attached to it and for holden to stick a 170k price tag to it has me blunted and stumped 0 all because of what you claim is a renaissance of all things aussie tru blue. Sorry, it doesn't really cut it.

Are Holden past the point where they have stopped making single OHC engines with Rockers and Rollers? Do you remember the Soarer came out with quad cam technology 14 years ago>

So Holden are catching up now are they? Do they know what a DSG actually is? Im sure if they looked it up they would. Do they even have ONE semi auto sequential GB in their entire lineup? I could go on.

My other point is that the technology that current other auto makers - such as the Japanese and Germans are employing - far outstrips and outclasses whatever technology Holden are employing - so much so its a farce that they have the audacity to lob the 427 in GTR or 911 price range.

The GTR and the 911 are technological breakthroughs - the 427 is definitely not.

Edited June 3, 2008 by m3gtr

[scotty014]

its an impressive engine the american know how to build v8's. but i think its a bit rich but in the future this car is more like an investment im pretty sure in 30 to 40 years time these will be worth a bit if they are still around.when it was released at the motor show they said it does 0-100km/h in mid 5 seconds which shows it must weigh a fair bit.

just a quick question with all the newer SS's and people badging them with chev badges is the entire engine made by chev or is it just the engine block. its just ive herd somewhere that all the other components like the rods and pistons and all that stuff are holden while just the engine block is made by chev. just wondering if its true or not.

[bozodos]

It's also the closest we're going to get to an Aussie built Corvette I'm afraid, but even you would have to admit that in recent years the quality of the local product has been improving, at least with the Chevrolet motor there's all that US based R&D and aftermarket support, they aren't trumpeting it as a technological marvel either (I find the economy and power that they can still squeeze out of pushrod motors the most fascinating part actually).

The price is a tad over the top given that the current top of the line Senator is around about 80k or so, however the Group A cars had a similar markup back when they were released and cashed up bogans or not, I think that there would be plenty of interest even in that price range.

m3gtr, the current HSV lineup does include a tiptronic style 6 speed automatic if that's what you were getting at btw.

Edited June 3, 2008 by bozodos

[Roy]

Roy, the point i was trying to make was that this "commodore" has the badge "holden" attached to it and for holden to stick a 170k price tag to it has me blunted and stumped 0 all because of what you claim is a renaissance of all things aussie tru blue. Sorry, it doesn't really cut it.

Are Holden past the point where they have stopped making single OHC engines with Rockers and Rollers? Do you remember the Soarer came out with quad cam technology 14 years ago>

So Holden are catching up now are they? Do they know what a DSG actually is? Im sure if they looked it up they would. Do they even have ONE semi auto sequential GB in their entire lineup? I could go on.

My other point is that the technology that current other auto makers - such as the Japanese and Germans are employing - far outstrips and outclasses whatever technology Holden are employing - so much so its a farce that they have the audacity to lob the 427 in GTR price range.

The GTR is a technological breakthrough - the 427 is definitely not.

All very good...but can you imagine how much the car would cost if Holden had to build a quad cam engine, DSG gearbox etc for such a low volume vehicle? I dont thnk the premium asking price is worth it. But i can see where the numbers come from when you consider they will actually sell them at those dollars.

Also, regarding the Soarer motor...so what. It makes no more power or torque then the equiv year model HSV. Why pay for all that complexity when it doesnt give you more power, and marginal improvement on economics. Can you imagine how much it would kill the aftermarket scene if you need 4 cams for an NA power upgrade. Hell Porsche had 2 valve heads for ages, MErc ran 3 valve hears, they even built a pushrod engine to race at the Indy 500. I dont get why people get so caught up in the pushrod thing. The resutls and tunability make them more desirable to me. I would love to buy a 240Z and throw an 8 in it. I would love to say i wold go VH45 but there is no way you could go past a Chev. Hell look at the Ultima, pushrods and would blow a GTR into the weeds

Anyway OT and a pointless discussion that is had on this forum every fortnight. Fact is all new performance cars a friggin fortune these days, sadly the HSV is no different...though to me not enough of a gain over a Calais or SS after a visit to local speedshop and suspension joint

[m3gtr]

they said it does 0-100km/h in mid 5 seconds

Dude, my 2005 Forester STi does 100 in under 5 and itll be 4 years older before the 427 is released. Im sure also my Fonz can hose the thing in the wet with less horsepower but more grip and less weight.

Your statement willingly or not ( and im not grilling you on it ) reinforces my point.

[sh@un]

There were 50 ppl keen as to spend around $220,000 on the HRT427 Monaro until they canned the idea

[scotty014]

Dude, my 2005 Forester STi does 100 in under 5 and itll be 4 years older before the 427 is released. Im sure also my Fonz can hose the thing in the wet with less horsepower but more grip and less weight.

Your statement willingly or not ( and im not grilling you on it ) reinforces my point.

what i meant was that that is slow its not impressive at all i was expecting something faster than that considering the size of the engine. with all the technology around now, just look at the german v8's they are smaller but still make more power than this.i think that holden keep thinking that the only way to get more power is to just go bigger.

[ctjet]

the fonz wont look as good or sound anywhere as hot in its life tho

[bozodos]

Funny you should mention the previous prototype, I was just reading up on that, seems like the new one is a bit watered down compared to the previous HRT-427 which did 0-60mph in 3.8 seconds and 11.8 second quarters, that was with a Corvette C5R race engine with 8 throttle bodies, a carbon fibre intake manifold and bonnet. The expected price on that was $215 000 way back in 2003!

I honestly dont know how comparing a Subaru of any type to a rear wheel drive V8 is any kind of real comparison, of course a WRX is going to outhandle most things in the wet, you could hypothesize that the HSV would murder it on a drag strip or a race track due to a higher top speed, its all horses for courses.

[Roy]

0-100km/h times are all fine and dandy, but to me the measure of real performance is the trap speed over the qtr mile, and how quikcly a car can trounce from 80km/h to 200km/h. Some cars are flattered by less power and more grip, cars like WRXs and even little Golf GTis etc. Wind out the gears and they lose out as theu traction whilst flattering only helps them up to 60km/h.

Where you can use all this power? Nowhere, all cars are too quick to enjoy on the street these days. Thats why i am loving the Getz i am driving at the moment, so underpowered and so little grip you can have fun and not doing anything too silly

[m3gtr]

All very good...but can you imagine how much the car would cost if Holden had to build a quad cam engine, DSG gearbox etc for such a low volume vehicle? I dont thnk the premium asking price is worth it. But i can see where the numbers come from when you consider they will actually sell them at those dollars.

Also, regarding the Soarer motor...so what. It makes no more power or torque then the equiv year model HSV. Why pay for all that complexity when it doesnt give you more power, and marginal improvement on economics. Can you imagine how much it would kill the aftermarket scene if you need 4 cams for an NA power upgrade. Hell Porsche had 2 valve heads for ages, MErc ran 3 valve hears, they even built a pushrod engine to race at the Indy 500. I dont get why people get so caught up in the pushrod thing. The resutls and tunability make them more desirable to me. I would love to buy a 240Z and throw an 8 in it. I would love to say i wold go VH45 but there is no way you could go past a Chev. Hell look at the Ultima, pushrods and would blow a GTR into the weeds

Anyway OT and a pointless discussion that is had on this forum every fortnight. Fact is all new performance cars a friggin fortune these days, sadly the HSV is no different...though to me not enough of a gain over a Calais or SS after a visit to local speedshop and suspension joint

Roy, mate - youre missing my point at the start but coming around at the end of your post.

Im not arguing the fact that OHC's can make power - shit look at top fuelers! Add a blower or a snail and ofcourse you make massive power. So what?

Yes..sure. Its been done and dusted. Then brushed off and done again. Im talking about advancement mate.

The kind of stuff Holden knows very little about and would be struggling to justify in the face of hard edged journo's tearing into the fact that the car has a 170k pricetag. Sorry Roy, the math does not add up.

You mean to tell me the GTR and 911 arent any better than the 427 - even just because they employ more advanced technologies? Come on mate, thats one of the biggest reasons theyre better - AND they make the tricks work! Im not arguing the fact that Cubes equals power - that has been an equation we all grew up to understand.

I could go on with this.

What i am amazed at is that Japanese technology has always pushed the envelope, developed new areas of technology - and EFFICIENCY ( just look at hybrid technology!! Name ONE aussie car with a sniff of the stuff. You may laugh now..." that oil crisis and price bullshit is garbage" - yeh sure..ill be laughing later. )- that werent available to us before. You may argue the case for the pushrod being applicable in the right situation, historically, numerically, logistically... but i will counter argue with this...

So...Holden decided to build a stomping great big 7 liter 427 cube motor inspite of the fact that theres a ..well you know it..a GLOBAL oil crisis and all the effects that go with burning the stuff. Slightly insensitive wouldnt you agree and more than a touch arrogant. Thats only the surface of it but IS NOT my main point.

The Holden motor is a Chev for a start. The tech specs came from the US arm of GM...

[m3gtr]

what i meant was that that is slow its not impressive at all i was expecting something faster than that considering the size of the engine. with all the technology around now, just look at the german v8's they are smaller but still make more power than this.i think that holden keep thinking that the only way to get more power is to just go bigger.

I realise this. One other thing that irks the shit out of me is that Aussie manufacturers cant seem to understand the concept of WEIGHT REDUCTION.

i DONT understand. Why does the HSV HAVE to weigh nearly 2 tonnes!!??

It makes NO sense at all.

NO HSV has to be that heavy. Simple as that.

I swear, Holden needs to talk to its metal refinery ASAFP.

[Ronin 09]

i'd hit it.

it'd do the best skids.

[m3gtr]

It's also the closest we're going to get to an Aussie built Corvette I'm afraid, but even you would have to admit that in recent years the quality of the local product has been improving, at least with the Chevrolet motor there's all that US based R&D and aftermarket support, they aren't trumpeting it as a technological marvel either

m3gtr, the current HSV lineup does include a tiptronic style 6 speed automatic if that's what you were getting at btw.

Totally acceptable. I see what you mean. The thing is - and think about it for a minute... How long has GM been involved in the placement of donks in Aussie cars?

Not very long im sure you will agree. Holden has its parent company, GM to thank for a lot.

Im not talking about a "tiptronic" by the way. The 1994 FTO GPX had a tiptronic in it and even then the tech wasnt new...Porsche knows tiptronic better than anyone.

Im talking about a twin clutch, paddle shifting, DSG Box that is use in the GTR and even the VW golf.

[Duncan]

i agree....it would chirp second.

[m3gtr]

There were 50 ppl keen as to spend around $220,000 on the HRT427 Monaro until they canned the idea

And there STILL wasnt enough justification for the go ahead.

Ill tell you why.

The car cost WAY more than holden could afford. A realistic pricetag for what was in essence a road going "racecar" with the works was over 350k. They aimed to high pure and simple.

They never would have been able to justify the selling of such a car anyway. Holden have to answer to someone after all.

So...this time they got it "right" in that they tapped into what they had, within Oz and from the parent GM and had a host of parts to do with the body, underbody and drivetrain waiting for enhancement.

A much less costly option.

But a shitload more expensove for the same money spent in a GTR or 911/

Give me either. There is NO way anyone in MY frame of mind will pay that much for a commodore. I distinctly remember a "buddy of mine" bragging about his mates 250 odd kw HSV that he paid 60k for a few years back, saying it was the best thing since sliced bread/

LOL! Its like HSV is saying they are worthy of a 911 price tag!!