pedals - heel and toe

[R377]

Just starting to do a few track days.  My track has 3 long straights followed by hairpins so i dont' wanna be diff locking all time.

With the heel and toe technique -  Ive got a r33 gts-t with evo brembo front and rear.  The brakes are so good, it only takes a light touch at the top to get it to stop.  My accelerator pedal is much lower down than the brake so im having big problems with heel and toe to downchange gears (im not even getting it close)

I was going to put a layer or two on the accelerator pedal to try and the get the same sort of height, but even with this the brakes are heaps sensitive.

Any suggestions ?

thanks

[Blue]

Provided you could still stroke the brake master cylinder to the stop, is there any adjustment left on the clevis and pedal stop to lower the brake pedal a bit?

You have to adjust the pushrod and stop (Probably the brake light switch) at the same time. If you just adjust the stop you wont uncover the fluid passages in the top of the cylinder that go to the reservoirs. Basically the piston in the master cylinder has to be right at the top of its stroke when your foot is of.

I only put that bit in as a lot of folks don't know about it and it is important to get right.

[KiwiRS4T]

2 hours ago, R377 said:

Just starting to do a few track days.  My track has 3 long straights followed by hairpins so i dont' wanna be diff locking all time.

With the heel and toe technique -  Ive got a r33 gts-t with evo brembo front and rear.  The brakes are so good, it only takes a light touch at the top to get it to stop.  My accelerator pedal is much lower down than the brake so im having big problems with heel and toe to downchange gears (im not even getting it close)

I was going to put a layer or two on the accelerator pedal to try and the get the same sort of height, but even with this the brakes are heaps sensitive.

Any suggestions ?

thanks

If you only need a light touch on the brakes to stop you are not going fast enough or braking too early!

[Leroy Peterson]

If you only need a light touch on the brakes to stop you are not going fast enough or braking too early!

Or youve removed ABS and your brakes aren't balanced properly and lock up exceptionally easy

[djr81]

Are your pedals standard?

Do you wear proper shoes when on the track rather than your normal Doc Martins or whatever people wear nowadays.  They make a huge difference.

Try practicing with no shoes on.

If you are consistently locking rears the chances are your bias is out. If you brake hard without the car in gear does it lock up the back end?  If the answer is yes it may well be the case.  Quickest fix is then to get some rear pads with a lower coefficient of friction.

Edited April 16, 2018 by djr81

[R377]

Thanks for the replies guys.  I have a series 2 r33 gts-t which i thought were all ABS ?  Actually just googling not all have ABS like i thought....  Mine does not have ABS.  I haven't touched it but maybe somebody else did.  The front right does lockup before both front lock up.  I have played around the ride height abit but not tracked it or driven it in anger yet...

I wear normal sneakers that are worn on the soles.  I also had a play around in the garage wearing crocs as same as the sneaker - not much grip but a thinner sole.

I have standard pedals.  I have just installed the evo brembo front and rear kit 350mm f and r

[Blue]

I would put up a different perspective (Especially if you are not generally locking them up)

Firstly, what they have posted above, shoes. Race boots are not all that costly, buy some if you can afford to. They really do make a difference, apart from anything else the heels will be rounded where many shoes have a much more square heel and it makes things easier, as well as the softer soles helping with feel. The disadvantage is that the thin and soft soles wear out a lot faster than a pair of runners.

Second is more of a comment. I found the Skylines brakes with good pads (HR31 with R33 GT-R Brembo fronts and GTS-T rears) to have far too much initial bite which made them easy to lock up, particularly in the wet, you literally had to be on your toes. I went to a 27mm (I think) master cylinder from a Navara and adjustable bias valve to increase the pedal effort but I still did not like them much. I am in the process of fitting a full pedal box to mine to get rid of the booster completely. I was using Project Mu RC09 pads as one track the car is run at is seriously hard on the stoppers and anything less tended to run out of pad fade wise by the end of a three hot lap sprint and consumes the pads at a silly rate. That is on the RAAF base at Sale and having driven both it is as hard on the brakes as Mallala.

[djr81]

13 hours ago, R377 said:

Thanks for the replies guys.  I have a series 2 r33 gts-t which i thought were all ABS ?  Actually just googling not all have ABS like i thought....  Mine does not have ABS.  I haven't touched it but maybe somebody else did.  The front right does lockup before both front lock up.  I have played around the ride height abit but not tracked it or driven it in anger yet...

I wear normal sneakers that are worn on the soles.  I also had a play around in the garage wearing crocs as same as the sneaker - not much grip but a thinner sole.

I have standard pedals.  I have just installed the evo brembo front and rear kit 350mm f and r

If you are consistently locking one side and not the other your corner weighting is probably out.  If you are locking one axle and not the other your bias is out.

If you have too much bite then change pads.  Ferodo DS2500's aren't known for being bitey.  What brand pads do you have?

Find some non fire proof racing shoes shouldn't cost you much more than $100 or so.  Fancy ones start at twice that.

[MagicMikeZ32]

For casual type driving shoes, I have been a big fan of the Puma 'Cat' series (speed cat/drift cat etc). Had at least 5 pairs (and still have 2 in circulation) over the last 5+ years. They must be nearly due another new release soon (I hope).

Of course might not be suitable depending on what kind of events you are doing.

Kart shoes are another option.

I'm not familiar with the accel setup, but it is possible to adjust it up instead of the brakes down?

[KiwiRS4T]

If your front right is locking up on its own then you need to fix the brakes before worrying about heeling and toe-ing.  If it locks up on the street it will probably throw you off the track at speed.

[admS15]

What brake pads and which master cylinder are you using with the evo brembos?

[V28VX37]

19 hours ago, R377 said:

...

I have standard pedals.  I have just installed the evo brembo front and rear kit 350mm f and r

Ok so 350mm front and rear but I'm guessing you're using a smaller caliper in the rear yes? I'd imagine using the large 4-pot front calipers in the rear that would cause all kinds of funky brake bias issues with standard MBC/ABS/lines...

The fact that you have one side locking up first doesn't sound great, I would get the system checked by a brake specialist.

With the pedals, what I did with my old Monaro was to buy a second hand accelerator pedal and bend that out so it was more level with the brake pedal. That helped a bit but the stock pedal positioning in the R34 is still better. I wouldn't go modding the brake pedal under any circumstances, and obviously avoid anything that can come loose or catch your footwear.

[GTSBoy]

I'd suggest a sticky piston on the LHF caliper.

[niZmO_Man]

Was your car converted from Auto to manual? I know auto cars tend to have the throttle pedal that's lower than the brake.