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Will an R32 GTR with -9 turbos need a tune?

Fizurg
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r32-25t Grand Master

r32-25t

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On 7/5/2022 at 4:43 AM, joshuaho96 said:

 I plan on replicating the stock ECU map as much as possible on a Haltech Elite ECU but it’s blocked by registration issues. 

And this is why American will consume more RB engines then the rest of the world 

joshuaho96 Veteran

joshuaho96

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On 5/6/2022 at 3:40 PM, r32-25t said:

And this is why American will consume more RB engines then the rest of the world 

Tuning comes later, I just want to make sure that I change as few variables as possible. I'm not particularly well-equipped so I can't make a whole base map from scratch and make it flawless.

Dose Pipe Sutututu Grand Master

Dose Pipe Sutututu

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On 07/05/2022 at 7:31 AM, joshuaho96 said:

Something I've been thinking about for a while is why with ITBs everyone is still using pure TPS in certain cases instead of throttle mass flow or something like that. It seems insane to me to tune based on a variable that doesn't actually represent engine load

You would use run both Alpha-N and MAP for load, something the Haltech does very well if you add in another dimension to the fuel / ignition tables. 

joshuaho96 Veteran

joshuaho96

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On 5/6/2022 at 3:52 PM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

You would use run both Alpha-N and MAP for load, something the Haltech does very well if you add in another dimension to the fuel / ignition tables. 

Does that translate really to a mass flow value though? I thought it was basically using TPS as the primary load, with the MAP primarily functioning as correction once you get on boost. TMF still requires blending at the top end, but as you approach WOT alpha-N is a pretty decent strategy anyways.

joshuaho96 Veteran

joshuaho96

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On 5/6/2022 at 5:24 PM, GTSBoy said:

That hasn't been true since the 90s. If anyone is still doing it it is because they are daft.

In my head I was thinking of the popular MAP + TPS blending. As far as I can tell there is still significant portions of the engine map where the load is almost entirely TPS + barometric correction from the MAP and not much else. In the Haltech base maps fuel load is pure TPS.

Dose Pipe Sutututu Grand Master

Dose Pipe Sutututu

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On 07/05/2022 at 10:43 AM, joshuaho96 said:

the Haltech base maps fuel load is pure TPS.

Because it's meant for you to start it, check everything and baby it to the tuner.

Not side step 3rd gear and do 8k RPM launch.

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joshuaho96 Veteran

joshuaho96

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On 5/7/2022 at 12:29 AM, Fizurg said:

So if I changed the turbos and put in a Nistune. Would the base map be safe to drive on? 

The base map is identical to the stock ECU. Nistune just allows you to edit the stock ECU tables in real time and has live tracing/logging functions too. 

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Piggaz Grand Master

Piggaz

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On 7/5/2022 at 5:29 PM, Fizurg said:

So if I changed the turbos and put in a Nistune. Would the base map be safe to drive on? 

Define ‘drive on’?

Really, change of snails = a tune. The only driving one should do is to the tuner… using the best boost controller there is… your right foot!

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BK Grand Master

BK

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Ok I'll weigh in here since I've done it.  When I blew a stock turbo on my 33 18 years ago I changed to the HKS GT-SS, which is almost the direct equivalent of -9 (HKS has bees dick bigger compressor wheel, exhaust side identical)

I drove it 1500km to Adelaide on the factory fuel pump, injectors and ECU at the speed limit of 110 - 130kph.

When I got there ECU was changed, fuel pump changed, twin Z32 AFM installed, 700cc injectors installed and then was on the dyno a tuned to 330kw on 98ron unleaded at about 1.3bar.

Moral of the story is - yes you can put these turbos on and drive it ok, as in no boost. Change turbos, keep it low load on vacuum and drive to wherever you want and get it tuned and it will be fine.

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joshuaho96 Veteran

joshuaho96

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On 5/6/2022 at 6:28 PM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Because it's meant for you to start it, check everything and baby it to the tuner.

Not side step 3rd gear and do 8k RPM launch.

Personally I'm holding out for the base map that uses a neural network for cylinder air charge estimation that takes all the work out of it.

Fizurg Explorer

Fizurg

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OK, so what turbos could i run? can i have my factory turbos rebuilt with steel internals and they will bolt on and run fine? if not having a tune was an option what are the best turbos to put on? i know this doesn't fit well with performance but realistically the car wont be drivable for years if what i do will be too expensive and it would just be nice to be able to drive it.

Duncan Grand Master

Duncan

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yes, standard turbos rebuilt with steel wheels in the same size and same/similar boost will be the cheapest way to get going again....no tune issues that way. Plus, rebuild is cheaper than all new turbs as no other fittings/exhaust/etc changes are required

Fizurg Explorer

Fizurg

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On 09/05/2022 at 12:47 PM, Duncan said:

yes, standard turbos rebuilt with steel wheels in the same size and same/similar boost will be the cheapest way to get going again....no tune issues that way. Plus, rebuild is cheaper than all new turbs as no other fittings/exhaust/etc changes are required

cool as. this option I guess makes the most sense. it gets my car back on the road and although its not ideal as far as performance goes, there are worse things than having a factory original R32 GTR. its also by far the easiest sell to the Mrs which makes life easier.

Cheers for all the help ive been given so far. ive been a member of many car forums over the years and they have always been by far the best source of information ive ever found. this one in particular is active, knowledgeable and friendly, so very much appreciated by me. im sure i will have more stupid questions going forward.

joshuaho96 Veteran

joshuaho96

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On 5/8/2022 at 6:00 PM, Fizurg said:

 

cool as. this option I guess makes the most sense. it gets my car back on the road and although its not ideal as far as performance goes, there are worse things than having a factory original R32 GTR. its also by far the easiest sell to the Mrs which makes life easier.

Cheers for all the help ive been given so far. ive been a member of many car forums over the years and they have always been by far the best source of information ive ever found. this one in particular is active, knowledgeable and friendly, so very much appreciated by me. im sure i will have more stupid questions going forward.

I would just make sure the parts are good. Hard part is making sure the turbos are rebuilt properly as well, those things spin at some ridiculous RPM so there is very little tolerance for any mistakes. I would probably ask Hypergear to see if they could do it. Likely not the cheapest option but I would value someone experienced that can do the job right over having to pull the turbos multiple times. I'd be suspect of most ebay rebuild kits, mostly because it's so hard to know the exact provenance of those parts.

There are some people who know what they're talking about, I'm just some random kid that doesn't really know what they're doing. So don't worry too much about it, you're in good company.

Fizurg Explorer

Fizurg

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On 09/05/2022 at 4:57 PM, joshuaho96 said:

I would just make sure the parts are good. Hard part is making sure the turbos are rebuilt properly as well, those things spin at some ridiculous RPM so there is very little tolerance for any mistakes. I would probably ask Hypergear to see if they could do it. Likely not the cheapest option but I would value someone experienced that can do the job right over having to pull the turbos multiple times. I'd be suspect of most ebay rebuild kits, mostly because it's so hard to know the exact provenance of those parts.

There are some people who know what they're talking about, I'm just some random kid that doesn't really know what they're doing. So don't worry too much about it, you're in good company.

 

yeah that is my next concern. im based in NZ and im not really sure who to use. there are plenty of companies that rebuild turbos but how to know which one will be good could be tough

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