Duncan's V37.......race car?

[Duncan]

Finally for now, a bit more work on the transmission temp gauge.

I was wondering how Raceworks do a gauge for $100 that autometer want $500 for. No idea about the accuracy of course, but they have cut a few corners that made things hard. 

First one I mentioned above, the sender is physically difficult to fit and doesn't work with their own adapters (the extra fittings I used to get the sender into a hose cost more than the whole gauge, lucky I had stuff in the shed)

Second, the temp sender wires are way too short. They are shown as 2.7m on the box and I know my routing was long from navigator headlight to driver's firewall back to centre console, but I had to lengthen them by about 2m total - 2 joins in each wire.

Also, same with the supplied power loom, they needed about an extra 1m to get the fuse box where I sourced power. Another join in each wire since one end wasn't supplied terminated.

I know they could argue that the wires might be long enough depending on situation, but when you consider parts and particularly labour, it would be a very expensive cheap gauge if you can't do the work yourself.

And, only a small issue....but it would have been nice if they remembered to tap a tread onto *both* spacers they supplied for the bracket....I haven't had to use the M4 tap often!

[Duncan]

Given it is temporary, I bought a  cheapy gauge mount (which has become enflattened) which I will screw into the existing phone mount

Also a first for me; given this is a temporary install I could not think of any reason not to use one of those "add a fuse" thingies to source the battery and IGN power. I had always figured they were pretty dodgy but having a good look at them I think they are a valid option for sourcing power from an existing source without cutting 

[MBS206]

Fuse taps are perfectly fine to use, especially when you're adding stuff for your own car, and so long as you're being smart about it. IE, don't throw a 30amp circuit, onto a circuit that is only a small circuit. It's best to add a small circuit, to one that is already quite large.

Oh, and make sure you're not going to blow the fuses that are further upstream too!

I dislike their use in other applications, such as alarms, telematics/tracking devices etc, as it's far too easy for someone to unplug them and render a system useless. Those sorts of devices I go for wiring in quite secretively.

[PranK]

16 hours ago, Duncan said:

Next up, the extinguisher is mounted but really only temporary because I ran into clearance problems (the bracket fit fine....until I put an extinguisher on it). It picks up the seat bolt mounts but has long bolts running through 20mm spacers for now

Doing it properly requires a bit of quick welding but I ran out of time, this will do for the practice day

 

My extinguisher mounted like this unscrewed a little (Maybe from the chair sliding forward) and dumped a bit of white on my mats. I'll need to get a more narrow one for future.

[MBS206]

I hear you were headed for a track day yesterday... Thread clearly needs updates

[Milkmun]

On 24/02/2025 at 2:03 PM, PranK said:

My extinguisher mounted like this unscrewed a little (Maybe from the chair sliding forward) and dumped a bit of white on my mats. I'll need to get a more narrow one for future.

No one wants white on the mat..

[Duncan]

Just quick update, I've had tech issues and so a backlog on life stuff....I will pull lap times from the video and data from the ECU logs to do a proper update.

But basically, in order of importance:

1. The car was excellent fun on the track, really felt a lot like the good old days. And nice to have AC while waiting

2. Coolant got really hot; again I need to pull and analyse the logs but the standard system is not up to tracking at 30o+ days, once the system was heat soaked after the first 2x15min sessions I could only do 3 laps before it got 110+ and I had to cool down. If I can't improve that it is a deal breaker

3 Oil temps were fine all day, noting it was short sessions due to 2. I think it will likely need work

4 Biggest surprise AT temps were fine, never went over 100, I would have been OK with 120 before I was too concerned. The auto sucks compared to a manual (of course) but it is faster to launch and I just need to downshift it manually before hitting the throttle, then it was OK. When I post the vids you'll hear it telling me off (beeping) for trying to downshift too early (it needs about 3500 before it will downshift, depending on gear a little but we are mostly talking 3/2 and 4/3)

5 A052s were not great which hurt the lap times, but I will be constrained in what I can get in good tyres that fit the wheel wells. These were small for a heavy car at 235/45/18. In theory I can fit 9.5 on front and 10.5 rear (so not square) but I still need 670mm+ high tyres in good brands.

6 Standard shocks/springs/roll bar are too soft for track work (of course), but that was always on the list.

And happily, no white on the mat, despite having a teenaged passenger, extinguisher mount was fine.

Also, it was nice to have Wakefield Park back in action  . Because the car was so quiet it is eligible for Green Day, which I thought was a band but is apparently a series of cheaper practice days they run with a lower sound limit, that is a smart idea.

 

[niZmO_Man]

On 08/03/2025 at 11:59 AM, Duncan said:

Green Day, which I thought was a band

Shall we... wake you up when September ends?  

[Duncan]

So this car is not top of the (very long) list at the moment, but as the weather was terrible for the outside jobs and the next steps on Neil's car are business day jobs (get hold of engine specs and tune it), I spent some time on this car yesterday.

First priority, work out why the LED hi beams I added were not working. This is a major one this time of year because I'm travelling at dusk and after dark to and from work and there is a lot of wildlife to avoid.

So, I was this far in:

When I finally remembered there is a switch on the dash. Which was turned off. And, when turned on, the lights work as expected.

Gregging it!

BTW, yes, in these cars you need to remove the windscreen cowl to remove the battery. At least the wiper can stay on.

[Duncan]

Next.....

That escalated quicker than an Elon and Donald break up!

I'll post up a specific DIY for radiator removal on these, but all I'm saying is that if you get a workshop to change your radiator for any reason and they give you a $1000 bill for it, go and hug them and thank them for not charging all the hours it took.....what a bastard of a job.

I'll make some adjustments as I put it all back for faster access in the future, but it was a nightmare.

[soviet_merlin]

It looks so incredibly busy in there! 😮 

[Duncan]

Final thought for now. Obviously the reason I was in there was to check everything is OK cooling wise, pull out the radiator to flush it etc, but I have to say the factory has done a hell of a lot of thinking about air management in a way they never did back in the R chassis days.

The Redsport/400rs have (from engine forward)

2 large shrouded fans - radiator (incl AT cooler) - AC condenser - Intercooler Heat Exchanger and Oil cooler.

There are shrouds and foam around everything to keep it pretty well sealed, which is good in that they have it sorted from factory, and bad in that I can't make any meaningful improvements there.

The second red sport pump water pump is mounted in front of the rad in the airflow, so I will see if there is somewhere else I can stash that (unlikely, it is tight in there).

The horns which are also in the rad airflow will be moved somewhere else, and hey who needs 2 when 1 would work

For track days, I can also remove the lights which would block some airflow.

Factory has already taken the smart option of ducting all air that went through the oil cooler down and out of the engine bay. This pic is taken from below looking up, so air comes through the cooler at the top of the pic then hits the shroud and is directed down and out of the engine bay through the engine bay lower cover

Which of course is good for oil temps, but doesn't help the rad as it diverts 10-20% of airflow away

So, no big improvements to be made here, I'll flush the rad out and put it all back together.....

 

 

[MBS206]

35 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Final thought for now. Obviously the reason I was in there was to check everything is OK cooling wise, pull out the radiator to flush it etc, but I have to say the factory has done a hell of a lot of thinking about air management in a way they never did back in the R chassis days.

The Redsport/400rs have (from engine forward)

2 large shrouded fans - radiator (incl AT cooler) - AC condenser - Intercooler Heat Exchanger and Oil cooler.

There are shrouds and foam around everything to keep it pretty well sealed, which is good in that they have it sorted from factory, and bad in that I can't make any meaningful improvements there.

The second red sport pump water pump is mounted in front of the rad in the airflow, so I will see if there is somewhere else I can stash that (unlikely, it is tight in there).

The horns which are also in the rad airflow will be moved somewhere else, and hey who needs 2 when 1 would work

For track days, I can also remove the lights which would block some airflow.

Factory has already taken the smart option of ducting all air that went through the oil cooler down and out of the engine bay. This pic is taken from below looking up, so air comes through the cooler at the top of the pic then hits the shroud and is directed down and out of the engine bay through the engine bay lower cover

Which of course is good for oil temps, but doesn't help the rad as it diverts 10-20% of airflow away

So, no big improvements to be made here, I'll flush the rad out and put it all back together.....

 

 

Could you modify this duct so instead it pushes the extra air through the radiator too and not down and out?

For temps, I know it's not the greatest idea, but as a bit of a last resort, you could use a very intermittent misting spray onto the front of the coolers/rad.

You don't want to be soaking them such that water is dripping off, but a small most on/off so that the water evaporates. That point of it constantly evaporating, rather than being soaked in water, will pull a LOT of heat out of the cooler. I'm literally thinking just the little mist sprayers for a garden from Bunnings. Being in a low humidity climate it will help even more!

The other trick if you want to be ghetto is some shade cloth hung in the opening, and keep it wet. Pretty much now it's acting like an evap cooler on a house, but cooling the air you need to use to cool the radiator...

 

On a topic to think about too though, when air enters through the bumper, is it all nicely ducted from the edges of that opening back at a nice angle, or is it like most cars, and the edge of the opening just stops, and suddenly it's wayyy wider behind that? If it does the later, get it shrouded out at nice angles. When that opening changes too rapidly, it can actually cause a high pressure zone between the front bar and radiator, and limit air flow into that area, which means less air for cooling, as it effectively stalls the air, AND adds to drag...

[GTSBoy]

2 hours ago, MBS206 said:

You don't want to be soaking them such that water is dripping off, but a small most on/off so that the water evaporates.

Being a race car, and being in the era of the Arduino, one would think it would take little effort to build a controller to do the spraying based on a real physical measurment.

Waaaaay back in the dim dark AS days, JE "designed" (as in, he had help) a microcontroller based intercooler spray system. It watched the difference between a temp sensor stuck on the core and one in the free air in front of the cooler, and if the temperature difference exceeded a (settable) threshold, it would activate the sprays. Thus, it only ran water when there was an actual need for water.

If you stop to think about the actual physical things that are going on in that stack of coolers, there's probably at least a couple of triggering conditions one could come up with, and one could probably even run one pump with more than one solenoid valve, to allow water to be placed where it is needed, or at all points at once (if it is needed at all points). We're in the age of science baby.

But.... I suspect that intercooler water sprays are on the forbidden list in most circuit classes, no? So only good for Targa type stuff?

[MBS206]

14 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

But.... I suspect that intercooler water sprays are on the forbidden list in most circuit classes, no? So only good for Targa type stuff?

As Fred would tell us, it's all about interpreting the rules. It's not a water sprayer, it's a water mister...

But everything else you've said, 100%! Even a raspberry Pi would be great, use HDMI out for a display, and add a raspberry Pi CANBus hat to read values out from the ECU.

[GTSBoy]

26 minutes ago, MBS206 said:

Even a raspberry Pi would be great

I don't like "actual computers" for in car use. They take time to boot up, have OS annoyances, and so on. Arduinos etc are ready to go a few seconds after power on, don't mind being agressively powere cycled, because everything is non-volatile, don't mind being shaken and stirred.

[MBS206]

2 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

I don't like "actual computers" for in car use. They take time to boot up, have OS annoyances, and so on. Arduinos etc are ready to go a few seconds after power on, don't mind being agressively powere cycled, because everything is non-volatile, don't mind being shaken and stirred.

I do typically agree.

These days even the screens most people use have more of a boot time than the main device.

However, I've seen an interesting use of the RPi in vehicle, however it involves effectively building your own OS and MBR, as then it boots up exceptionally quickly, as you don't have everything needing to start up, and you can then also run it up as an RTOS, while still having more compute than an Android can give for things like display, and processing. A very huge task that would be though for Duncan, I'm not sure that's his skill set (or Arduino programming and wiring) ha ha.

If end goal is definitely just water cooling, Arduino would be the simpler setup especially for a rookie. If he wants extra display stuff though, bashing some code in Python on an RPi may be the better result for both systems.

 

Unfortunately the new device I'm building at work which runs a display, is too slow of a display for dashboard style purposes. More extreme low power, update only a couple of times a day type system

[GTSBoy]

3 minutes ago, MBS206 said:

However, I've seen an interesting use of the RPi in vehicle, however it involves effectively building your own OS and MBR, as then it boots up exceptionally quickly, as you don't have everything needing to start up, and you can then also run it up as an RTOS, while still having more compute than an Android can give for things like display, and processing.

This sounds cool. But, as per usual, anything really complicated like that, that I take on, constitutes a steep learning curve that I never actually "learn". I just get it working, install it and start using it. Then, when it breaks a few months later, I've got no memory of what I did, how I did it, or even the bloody IP address I gave it.

I'm having more or less exactly that problem right now. My Proxmox machine was discovered to be non-responsive, and the VMs on it were ditto. Power cycle it to a stream of loud Dell beep codes - which was unpopular at midnight, I can tell you. Move it to the lounge room so I can HDMI it to the TV for a screen, see the boot messages complaining about the /PVE/data having all sorts of LVM problems, saying it needs to be fixed manually. And I'm like....great. How am I going to work out what I need to do? At least it wasn't the stupid Silicon Power SSD shat itself. Mental note for all readers - DO NOT BUY SP SSDS! They are shit. I have had one take out an entire VM setup already, and this one could have done the same. Maybe it actually has. Cheap Chinesium shitbaskets. I won't cheap out again, even on play projects with no budget. Because my time budget having to fix shit is worth far more than the cost of proper parts.

[MBS206]

50 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

This sounds cool. But, as per usual, anything really complicated like that, that I take on, constitutes a steep learning curve that I never actually "learn". I just get it working, install it and start using it. Then, when it breaks a few months later, I've got no memory of what I did, how I did it, or even the bloody IP address I gave it.

I'm having more or less exactly that problem right now. My Proxmox machine was discovered to be non-responsive, and the VMs on it were ditto. Power cycle it to a stream of loud Dell beep codes - which was unpopular at midnight, I can tell you. Move it to the lounge room so I can HDMI it to the TV for a screen, see the boot messages complaining about the /PVE/data having all sorts of LVM problems, saying it needs to be fixed manually. And I'm like....great. How am I going to work out what I need to do? At least it wasn't the stupid Silicon Power SSD shat itself. Mental note for all readers - DO NOT BUY SP SSDS! They are shit. I have had one take out an entire VM setup already, and this one could have done the same. Maybe it actually has. Cheap Chinesium shitbaskets. I won't cheap out again, even on play projects with no budget. Because my time budget having to fix shit is worth far more than the cost of proper parts.

This sounds like me. And then why I leave shit that I had previously hobbled together broken. Lately I've changed strategies to "If I don't want to justify the money on decent stuff, I'm not going to justify hobbling it together". I'm still for DIY, but DIY it properly is more my thing. However, I am terrible on not setting up backups still... Which reminds me, I need to go backup some of my work VM machines...
Oh, it's also why I've become a lover of building things into Docker Containers... Then I just need a machine that can run docker, and bam, that specific system is up and running, on the specific versions of everything I need for it to run (In the event a change in required software version breaks something else).

Also, these days, my steep learning curves are spent with work related stuff, and on very varied projects, that my want to do other random projects like build a dashboard for my own car has dwindled away to "I just want the car running", which is my current PITA, as I'm getting the Landcruiser usable again, and it has just been non-stop the past 6 to 8 weeks of buying parts, and working on it. Oh, and tools that are meant to be fit for purpose... And they break, because 25 year old 4WD decides it's stronger... But by the time I have it ready to roll back out the drive way, nearly all the stuff in it will have been touched and serviced, so the damn thing better give me NO FREAKING ISSUES, for at least the next 50,000KMs!
Just redone whole front of the motor, and resealed the up top stuff, replaced a bunch of things getting perished, new timing belt done, water pump, lower timing cover (Toyota diesel engine runs timing GEARS for the bottom half the motor, and a timing belt from halfway up to the top), new harmonic balancer, fix up the alternator, new thermostat, full swivel hub rebuild, new bearings and seals front and back, steering box rebuild, new battery, and today, it turns out a rear shock has let go, so four new shocks are about to go on order, and that will leave me with after the next run of work, to see if I need to order just a brake caliper re-seal, or if I'll need new pistons in them too. Oh, and I'll finish welding in the new floor sheet metal shortly too.
Presently I just want it finished already...

But once all the above is done, I still need to fully service diffs, gearbox, transfer, and motor. Then flush and bleed the clutch, and flush and bleed the brakes.

But enough about our waffle, back to Duncan's heat problems... I think for Duncan he just gets a thermoswitch, and a manual switch to run some water misters. Thermo so it's only on above certain temps, and the manual switch so it can be turned off even if it is above certain temperatures. IE, switch on for "I'm now on track", then it doesn't need any "smart" computers that might try and do things wrong. And switch the thing off completely on the cool down lap, so when he stops in pits, there's not even a possibility of it dripping any water out to get him in trouble.

[GTSBoy]

So, 3 switches then?