Summary: Front Mount Intercooler Options & Piping Layouts

[scotty nm35]

Very tempted to try out one of these ebay coolers and have custom pipework done.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/120526153349?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

It makes the pipework very simple to fabricate and will look very clean and stock if you paint it all black. Should do the job nicely if you dont have huge power goals.

[scotty nm35]

DP.

[Mick_o]

Im gunna blow my own trumpet here and say that i think my custom fabricated pipework is a better setup as it is shorter and doesnt run near the radiator and doesnt have as much pipework running over the top of the rocker cover which means it should be less prone to heat soak and is short as possible without a forward facing plenum which = more $$$">

[Missileman]

It makes the pipework very simple to fabricate and will look very clean and stock if you paint it all black. Should do the job nicely if you dont have huge power goals.

Yeah the stock look is what I want, and as this for an RB20 with the stock turbo hi flowed, peak power should be under 200kw, I've even considered anodizing instead of the black paint.

Im gunna blow my own trumpet here and say that i think my custom fabricated pipework is a better setup as it is shorter and doesnt run near the radiator and doesnt have as much pipework running over the top of the rocker cover which means it should be less prone to heat soak and is short as possible without a forward facing plenum which = more $$">

That sure is some tidy work, you don't live in Brisbane by any chance? Have had a brief go on tig welder myself and can appreciate your work.

[Mick_o]

Thanks mate no im in sydney haha

Yeah the stock look is what I want, and as this for an RB20 with the stock turbo hi flowed, peak power should be under 200kw, I've even considered anodizing instead of the black paint.

That sure is some tidy work, you don't live in Brisbane by any chance? Have had a brief go on tig welder myself and can appreciate your work.

[ARTZ]

I went full retard...

ended up costing as much as a new Bitz return flow for probably half of the effect, I have an IAT sensor now so I guess i will now how good/bad it is soon..The only real benefit to doing it this way is when your missus ditches your car off the road in the dirt you can drive home cause you didnt destroy your intercooelr in the process, oh and I didnt have to cut my reo..other than that its just f**king retarded

[sydking]

when i spoke to Yuvaz Re what size intercooler i need for my -9's ect ect. He said from an engeneering point of view, The bigger the better.

Now from my understanding, Bigger = added lag. ANd a FMIC should be matched according to the turbo size and supporting mods?

[freyb]

Excellent much appreciate that, I was even considering and aftermarket gtr f-bar but that was a last resort, as I don't like gtst's pretending to be gtrs.

Mike.

i just found a cam. hope this helps

i think i got a old model blitz return flow. 18x12x3

no throttle lag or delay.

.7 bar

[Missileman]

i just found a cam. hope this helps

i think i got a old model blitz return flow. 18x12x3

no throttle lag or delay.

.7 bar

thanks for the shots, yours must be a series 2 as my bar seems a little different...

[533 RYC]

It makes the pipework very simple to fabricate and will look very clean and stock if you paint it all black. Should do the job nicely if you dont have huge power goals.

That design is close, but no cigar! Design of the end tanks is as important as the internal core. As previously stated , the internal fin design between 'cheap chinese & expensive japanese' is vastly different & I'd trust the japanese have a much better grasp of Thermal Dynamics! That's another topic that should be researched by all intercooler swappers that want SERIOUS insight to heat exchangers. Efficiency is the key, whether it is street or race. The right intercooler for the right application is just as important as the right turbo for the right application. Bigger IS NOT better!

Everyone knows what the general FMIC looks like. Most engineers with knowledge into thermal dynamics will tell you that they are not the best way to cool charged air. They cool small charged air for a long time, which leads to a greater drop in pressure. Whereas the intercoolers I have posted cool larger charged air for a shorter time, which has tends to have less pressure drop.

These are all bar & plate design. Here are the pros & cons of tube & fin vs bar & plate.

Tube and Fin

Pros:

Generally weighs about half as much as a bar and plate core of similar dimensions

Generally less expensive

Generally less flow restriction within the core than bar and plate designs

Less flow restriction through the exterior allowing better flow to the rear of the core and to a radiator, AC condenser, tranny or oil cooler, etc. which may be behind it

Cons:

Those with less flow restriction than bar and plate cores offer less heat rejection

Generally have more fins which means they're more likely to be damaged by rocks/debris which cuts down on cooling efficiency

Charge air entry extends beyond core wall making it more difficult for air to enter the core cleanly

Bar and Plate

Pros:

Generally off greater heat rejection than tube and fin design

Those with turbulators offer even greater heat rejection

Offered in tons of varying shapes and sizes

Less likely to be damaged by rocks and debris

Charge air entry sits flush with core allowing for cleaner entry

Cons:

Weighs about twice as much as a similarly size tube and fin core

More expensive

Blocks more airflow to radiators, etc. which may be behind it

Those with turbulators have greater flow resistance to charge air

Remember that there's a balancing act between cooling and airflow restriction within the core. The more densely packed turbulators are within a bar and plate core the more cooling will be done as the air passes through, but the greater flow is restricted.

There are many crappy cores for sale on ebay and they are now becoming a common item at so called performance shops. In the product images they show the cores and you can see right down them because there are no turbulators present. Without these all you have is big chunk of metal with poor cooling. People are always saying the ebay ICs flow great. Sure they do, straight pipes with no restrictions do flow nicely.

In terms of the core itself, some bar and plate cores use radiused ends (not end tanks) to promote flow. I made a quick drawing to illustrate this. You can see how the airflow will enter the core more readily when the ends are radiused rather than flat. Air is less likely to collide and swirl, and more likely to curve in.

I made some quick drawings. Please try not to laugh.

And here are some pics which illustrate what I meant when I said the charge air entries on a bar and plate sit flush with the core...and the tube and fin entries protrude:

The last of my posted pictures is of an intercooler for sale by GKTECH on Ebay for Silvias. I would maybe consider it for my Stagea depending on the internal design upon inspection.

All decent manufacturers/sellers, whether posting on Ebay or not, will have REAL figures of how their intercoolers perform under different boost pressures & delta T (temperature drop across the cooler at common given boost pressures), as well as boost pressure loss.

I know this has complicated the 'ol intercooler swap, but, the R&D & resulting technology from automotive manufacturers & top aftermarket performance companies is very important to all of us. On my closing note, If you change your intercooler, GET IT TUNED!!! Larger intercoolers mean more airflow, whether longer pipework or not, mean leaner mixtures! Ask any top tuner!!!!!!!!!!

[V28VX37]

That design is close, but no cigar! Design of the end tanks is as important as the internal core. As previously stated , the internal fin design between 'cheap chinese & expensive japanese' is vastly different & I'd trust the japanese have a much better grasp of Thermal Dynamics! That's another topic that should be researched by all intercooler swappers that want SERIOUS insight to heat exchangers. Efficiency is the key, whether it is street or race. The right intercooler for the right application is just as important as the right turbo for the right application. Bigger IS NOT better!

Everyone knows what the general FMIC looks like. Most engineers with knowledge into thermal dynamics will tell you that they are not the best way to cool charged air. They cool small charged air for a long time, which leads to a greater drop in pressure. Whereas the intercoolers I have posted cool larger charged air for a shorter time, which has tends to have less pressure drop.

...

Remember that there's a balancing act between cooling and airflow restriction within the core. The more densely packed turbulators are within a bar and plate core the more cooling will be done as the air passes through, but the greater flow is restricted.

There are many crappy cores for sale on ebay and they are now becoming a common item at so called performance shops. In the product images they show the cores and you can see right down them because there are no turbulators present. Without these all you have is big chunk of metal with poor cooling. People are always saying the ebay ICs flow great. Sure they do, straight pipes with no restrictions do flow nicely.

...

In terms of the core itself, some bar and plate cores use radiused ends (not end tanks) to promote flow. I made a quick drawing to illustrate this. You can see how the airflow will enter the core more readily when the ends are radiused rather than flat. Air is less likely to collide and swirl, and more likely to curve in.

...

The last of my posted pictures is of an intercooler for sale by GKTECH on Ebay for Silvias. I would maybe consider it for my Stagea depending on the internal design upon inspection.

A very interesting read, thanks for posting.

I believe this is all in reference to 'vertical flow' intercoolers (which are also 'return flow' too), where air flows top to bottom rather than side to side (quote and diagram from the very first post):

Diagram 04 is an intercooler kit which reuses most if not all of the stock piping, and (hopefully!) requires no cutting to the metal. I've only seen these kits on eBay so I couldn't say an example of a brand. However, they are not available from the likes of Trust/Blitz/HKS etc (but please note they are similar to Diagram 05 which ARE). I dunno much else about it, so just enjoy the (un)pretty picture This kit has the benefit of looking stock upon cursory inspection.

I've got a relatively rare Trust vertical flow cooler on the GTT, here's a pic of the core(s) and piping:

Looking at the pics you posted, it seems that the generic ebay vertical flow units have end tanks that taper linearly, whereas on the Trust and GkTech units the end tanks are curved. I'm guessing this is no coincidence.

In the Trust core the fins are 'curved' (sine wave) rather than 'linear zig zag' (like in your diagrams). I'm not sure if this is the case with other cores but thought I'd mention it.

I'm a big fan of the Trust kit for simplicity & ease of install, and it's been reported to support a 300rwkw setup no problems.

You can read the full installation thread here with some good discussion on this type of IC design and its pros and cons.

[Ronin 09]

anyone thought about using a stock XR6T intercooler; looks a reasonable size and has the return back to the passenger side.

I reckon they could be had for CHEAP too.

hmm bit small now that i think about it.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Ronin 09

[discopotato03]

Good to see some vertical tube intercooler designs creeping in . Of late I have seen heaps of motorbike radiators with curved cores and that would be a great way not to have to cut anything in the nose of the car if intercooler cores were the same .

I still like the Trust unit shown above in the R34 and I reckon when enough of the current wave of turbo diesel intercoolers are available through wreckers they would be a good start for fabricators .

Upwards of 300 Kw potential in a standardish looking engine bay isn't too shabby .

A .

[ARTZ]

I went full retard...

ended up costing as much as a new Bitz return flow for probably half of the effect, I have an IAT sensor now so I guess i will now how good/bad it is soon..The only real benefit to doing it this way is when your missus ditches your car off the road in the dirt you can drive home cause you didnt destroy your intercooelr in the process, oh and I didnt have to cut my reo..other than that its just f**king retarded

just to update on this.

When tuning my temps never went over 35 and on the road were closer to 25.

On a 25 degree day thats not bad for a 99$ cooler

[dori34]

^ even with no radiator?

[scotty nm35]

^ The radiator is in place, the cooler piping fitted around the core. Just. There was plenty of die grinding involved with getting the flow in and out of the cooler tanks as I remember but it was worth it for the response gained.

Edit: Ahh, didnt see the lack of rad.

[ARTZ]

haha..yeah i was wondering wtf he was on about too for a minute...

rest assured it has nice fat 52mm radiator taking care of things now

[BOOZTJUNKEY]

just to update on this.

When tuning my temps never went over 35 and on the road were closer to 25.

On a 25 degree day thats not bad for a 99$ cooler

Do u have a photo of how it sits with the radiator in place?

Did u cut holes in the rad support ?

[r34unit]

has any one installed a hdi kit or something smillar in a r34 gtt but not cut any holes for the cold side piping
ive heard it can be run under the rail of the car

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

has any one installed a hdi kit or something smillar in a r34 gtt but not cut any holes for the cold side piping

ive heard it can be run under the rail of the car

That would require custom piping, and when you factor in that cost you might as well just have gotten a Blitz turnflow kit.