Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[wolverine]

Ideally you want 0

If there was no pressure drop then I would be wondering if any cooling has occurred.

[89CAL]

If there was no pressure drop then I would be wondering if any cooling has occurred.

This

There should be 'some' drop accross it. Ideally there shouldnt be to much but I'd expect some drop accross the cooler. I know that mine cools, its very easy to tell with stainless piping, not something that was really apparent with aluminium piping (although back then it used to run accross the top of the engine)

In winter I can feel the hot side of the cooler piping and its quite hot, cant really hold my hand on it to long, feel the cold side and could hold my hand on there all day.

I'm hoping for a February-March startup on this new engine so should have SS2 Ceramic Bearing results around then Pretty keen to see how it performs with Poncams

[GTSBoy]

Zero pressure drop is possible. Well, at least zero within the abilities of your average boost gauge wielding guy to measure. All it takes is for the intercooler to be sufficiently large. If I were to put a 100mm thick 600c300 on my car at my power level (and probably even a lot more power) I'd not be able to express the pressure drop across it in psi. 1 psi is about 7 kPa. 1 psi is actually quite a bit of pressure. You can do a hell of a lot of work with 1 psi (or 7 kPa). I'd expect a big core on my car to only lose 1 or 2 kPa. You couldn't realy measure that with boost gauges, would need something a little more sensitive and accurate.

But the air would certainly get cooled.

[t_revz]

I'll send that PM soon dude, just sorting out the mrs

No need to brag

[jet_r31]

The graph looks similar to the turbo I got now on pump 98 td05h18g kando

http://nissansilvia....ic=498401&st=90

If Hypergear could make something similar to the hksgt2530 I had I would get it fullboost by 3500rpm 20psi 180rwkw by 4000rpm on sr20 thats the most responsove setup ive had so far and ot drove the best And still made decent power on 21 dropping to 19psi 251rwkw e85 drives better than the setup i got now td05h18g e85 24 dropping to 21psi making 264rwkw

link to dyno graphs and comparisons are in the link above the power curves abit wobbly cause my boost solenoid was cactus

I think I might give his new billet ss1.5 ago seems like it should make similar power as the hks gt2530 and response his sspu is similar to the td05h18g I have now full boost 4000rpm 20psi and made similar power

What Sr20's that on, i have had a few 2530 over the years, back in the late 90's when they where $3G secondhand...lol, but on the old redtops with standard cams they would get 18psi by

3800rpm and 228-230rwkw and be out of puff on 98 octane, I really like them,., i still have one sitting in a box that i have nothing to use it on,, what are they worth now in good condition? . 3500rpm would be feel epic compared to that

cheers

darren

Edited January 18, 2013 by jet_r31

[Manuel Kasko]

Thanks for the info guys.

I guess once I get some cooler piping to drill into then I will check all that.

[hy_rpm]

What Sr20's that on, i have had a few 2530 over the years, back in the late 90's when they where $3G secondhand...lol, but on the old redtops with standard cams they would get 18psi by

3800rpm and 228-230rwkw and be out of puff on 98 octane, I really like them,., i still have one sitting in a box that i have nothing to use it on,, what are they worth now in good condition? . 3500rpm would be feel epic compared to that

cheers

darren

Sr20det non VCt blacktop same as redtop in a 180sx

Not sure if the tomei expreme manifold and e&5 made it more responsive

Got mine second hand for $550 with a hks actuator and split dump the gtr gt2860r-5 turbo is the same chra as that's what the chra was in mine but had hks 2530 housings

[wolverine]

Zero pressure drop is possible. Well, at least zero within the abilities of your average boost gauge wielding guy to measure. All it takes is for the intercooler to be sufficiently large. If I were to put a 100mm thick 600c300 on my car at my power level (and probably even a lot more power) I'd not be able to express the pressure drop across it in psi. 1 psi is about 7 kPa. 1 psi is actually quite a bit of pressure. You can do a hell of a lot of work with 1 psi (or 7 kPa). I'd expect a big core on my car to only lose 1 or 2 kPa. You couldn't realy measure that with boost gauges, would need something a little more sensitive and accurate.

But the air would certainly get cooled.

I thought that the pressure would measurably drop with charge temperature coming down and the turbulators inside the core would also account for some pressure drop.

[Mick_o]

Agreed! You have to slow the flow down somewhat to allow for heat exchange to take place and also as wolverine said when the air cools it will "shrink" when it cools.

[GTSBoy]

I thought that the pressure would measurably drop with charge temperature coming down and the turbulators inside the core would also account for some pressure drop.

Of course. But if you do the calculations for how much the pressure will decrease with the corresponding temperature decrease (say, 50°C - 100°C), it's not much. And then, on top of that, we're not talking about a system that even responds that way. It is not adiabatic, so we can fully expect to keep most of our pressure anyway. And, yes, turbulators do add to pressure drop.....but again, they're not that bad. As I said, make the core sufficiently big, and you can have as much cooling as you like with effectively no pressure drop. It's only when we're talking about somewhat higher power levels (ie more hot air) that we possibly can't fit a big enough core in to keep the pressure drop really low.

[GTSBoy]

Agreed! You have to slow the flow down somewhat to allow for heat exchange to take place and also as wolverine said when the air cools it will "shrink" when it cools.

But we're not talking about a fixed volume system here. If this was a closed tin can, then your physics would be more correct. But as it stands, it is neither adiabatic nor closed.

[hypergear]

Nah I have a pump 98 result in the link aswell

It's making 231rwkw on 19psi by 4200rpm on 20psi made 237rwkw

His one is 234-5rwkw on 19-20psi by 4000rpm if you read his graph

mines non VCt aswell same dyno same ramp rate same tuner

On a hot day it will boost up faster when it heat soaks but not make as much top end power as mine did that when the radiator was no good coolant temp was getting to 100•c on the dyno but I couldn't believe it full boost was 3600rpm once we let it cool down for 15mins power was back up 10kw and boost back at 4000rpm

If you overlay my td05h pump 98 dyno graph over his ss1pu one it's very similar

Well radiator heat and high environmental temperature don't necessary cause the same behavior. A car can still drives perfectly fast in a 15 degrees day with radiator temp going about 100 degrees, that happens on track days all the time. How ever it can not drive fast on a 45 degrees day, even with the radiator temp is 10 degrees cooler. Cold air has higher oxygen content for better combustion.

higher oil temp causes oil to thin that has less drag on the turbine shaft, It appears to have an affect on both roller and bush bearing cartridges, how ever roller bearings are not as greatly effected.

Response is not bad, and there is decent amount of differences down low, FNT turbine and custom bearing n collar seems to take effects, it is difficult getting better response on the SR20det while not hurting top end.

Physical size wise SS1PU is a larger turbo to the TD05H in both compressor and turbine end. Once the car runs in, on a cooler date the maximum power delivery will be higher. Our billet TD05H should provide even better response, how ever maximum power wise can not match the SS1PU.

[wolverine]

Of course. But if you do the calculations for how much the pressure will decrease with the corresponding temperature decrease (say, 50°C - 100°C), it's not much. And then, on top of that, we're not talking about a system that even responds that way. It is not adiabatic, so we can fully expect to keep most of our pressure anyway. And, yes, turbulators do add to pressure drop.....but again, they're not that bad. As I said, make the core sufficiently big, and you can have as much cooling as you like with effectively no pressure drop. It's only when we're talking about somewhat higher power levels (ie more hot air) that we possibly can't fit a big enough core in to keep the pressure drop really low.

Would the pressure drop using a normal sized cooler with a streetable turbo that is being leaned upon to the point it isn't making more power?

[hypergear]

Which brings me back to my original statement that yes there will

Would the pressure drop using a normal sized cooler with a streetable turbo that is being leaned upon to the point it isn't making more power?

When this happens the turbocharger starts to surge loudly and violently. Thats when the compressor hits the upper surge limit.

[GTScotT]

I should note that in todays milder weather conditions the car was faster on 14psi than it was yesterday on 20

I havent had a chance to turn the wick back up to 20 again but will in the not so distant future. Weeeeeee skating in 3rd in a reasonably set up car is scary lol

[hypergear]

Posting some updates:

This is some thing that I've been working on for the past weekish, reducing the oil drag behavior on a roller bearing turbo cartridge while not delivering lesser oil. This is a oil cooled BB CHRA that does not require water cooling.

Turbocharger used for evaluation is a ATR43G3, comparing shutting down time from before and after.

Just for abit of lolz, I've blew up 6 turbochargers during this development. Mainly due to seized bearings and thermo shaft bending due to metal expansion tolerance and insufficient oil delivery in areas required. Final out come is satisfactory, I've managed to reduce oil drag while delivering the right amount to all areas required.

I've taken it for a 54km thrash after, with 370rwkws doing wheel spin in 3rd is pretty scary on the high way, specially over taking a new HSV. Nothing seized up during the sprint and after cooling down. There is a Just noticeable difference in boost building rate.

[copycutter]

^ LOL

Man 260 feels fun I can't imagine 370.

[hypergear]

Also because the roller bearing have increased the boost building rate so its very hard to put that much power on the road in a short period of time. I've got RSR 255 in the rear. In third full throttle it swifts left n right, left n right.....

[XRATED]

Hey Stao,

Is there any more tech your going to throw at the SS1PU?

Is there any way to maximise the torque delivery around 2-3.5k rpm? I'd like to match or exceed the stock delivery in this area, but end up with 220rwkw under 20psi (auto neo stagea).

Real world, how dose the SS1PU compare with a 2530 around 2-3.5k rpm?

Cheers

Justin

[hypergear]

Hey Stao,

Is there any more tech your going to throw at the SS1PU?

Is there any way to maximise the torque delivery around 2-3.5k rpm? I'd like to match or exceed the stock delivery in this area, but end up with 220rwkw under 20psi (auto neo stagea).

Real world, how dose the SS1PU compare with a 2530 around 2-3.5k rpm?

In a manual we don't usually sit on the 2~3000RPMs range, how ever the autos do use that quite often and with the long gear ratio and high drive tran lose, It acts as if it needs a tinny baby turbo down low with a huge turbo up top.

Unfortunately any thing smaller on the exhaust side is going to sky rocket upper range EGT while smaller comp will reduce top end power.

Roller bearing has no effect on the SS1xx series as the bear friction in those are already sit to be minimum. It probably need a VNT valve in the exhaust housing. I might be able to get that working and driven by an actuator.