The Wakefield "incident"

[evil_weevil]

Eric - you can borrow my trailer. but I need it weekend of april 9/10/11 for a race meet

[Pezhead]

I like Wakefield but this is just aweful. Would not like to be in the middle of that. Damage looks fairly serious.

Where did this happen on the track and what speed was each car travelling at time of impact?

Hey Steve,

I estimate my speed at about 50-60 and I think the speed of the other car was around 100-120 at the time but that is a total estimate based on the overtaking speed.

While I agree that it was an aweful event, in hindsight due to a brake failure if I were driving the other car it would have been a struggle to keep any kind of control going. The other driver said that he downshifted through the gears all the way into first gear.

Although I completely dissagree with the attitudes of the driver and owner of the other car, I do genuinely feel that this unfortunate accident was difficult to avoid given the circumstances. It was also a very rare occurance as a first in our club events in 9 years. Even Wakefield has said they have no experience in this circumstance where the impact between two cars occured so far off the racing line.

I want to be clear that I hold no malice against Wakefield or SAU. My primary greviance is with the other parties lack of moral character to step up to assist me.

I am so grateful for the SAU community that has stepped to fill that void.

[MaTBoY]

the fact that you were heading in the same, or similar directions would have reduced the impact force quite a lot. I'd say the final impact velocity would have been around 30kmh. the fact that you're car spun would have saved a lot of damage too as a good chunk of the energy would have went into spinning the car as opposed to just stopping in the car. (Like if it was at rest or sitting on a surface with more friction, e.g. if you were in the middle of the track not near grass). given the cicumstances, and the speed that people were going around that corner I think you and your car fared quite well considering how fast that car would have been fanging it around.

[NickR33]

look on the bright side... that 300ZX has never looked better...

sorry to hear about your car mate... I don't know the driver but sounds like he was put in a bad situation too, damaged 2 cars and not at fault... he might have been more polite but was probably pretty shitty about the whole situation

good luck with putting your missus car back together

[Victory]

Do we have any SAU members who are panel beaters or have good mates in the business? From the pictures this does not look to be that big of a hit. From a body perspective you are just looking at a rear quarter and a rear bar (which you have already sourced) - the rest looks OK.

I have recently spent some time at a mates panel shop having a R33 GTS-T repaired and you would not believe how quick and easily a good tradesman can replace a rear quarler and straighten the under panels. I took the same approach as you would in that I replaced the complete front suspension and damaged components on the rear suspension and had the panel shop do the body repairs

I would have the body repairs completed by a good body shop and with contacts like Neil's wife you should be able to source new panels for a reasonable price (new panels are easier for the panel shop to work with -eg saves them time which equates to saving you money).

As an example one of my GTS-T's has some rust around the rear window and I have purchased two rear quarters from Nissan and will have them installed in the near future.

I would suggest getting a quote for the body repairs from a good panel shop so that you know what you are up for - from my experience the repairs did not cost that much when I supplied all of the parts.

[Pezhead]

I've received some info from one of our members that's family runs a smash repair. I will be in contact with them soon.

THE LEGAL SIDE

In other developments, I've received the legal waver that I did have to sign on the track day.

It does look pretty clear and air tight that I do not have any recourse with the other parties. I will discuss it with my wife, but I think it will be money wasted to see a solicitor.

The form reads:

Each of the undersigned for himself/herself, his/her personal representative, heirs and next of kin,

[excerpt from clause 2]

Hereby releases waives, discharges and covenants not to sue Wakefield Park Motorsport Pty. Ltd, the landowners, promoters, participants, racing associations, sanctioning organisations or any subdivision thereof, track operators, officials, car owners, drivers, pit crews, rescue personnel, any persons in any restricted areas, promoters, sponsors, (etc, etc) from all liability, to the undersigned, his/her personal on account of injury to the person or property (etc, etc)

So this leaves me looking to you - our community of automotive & Skyline enthusiasts to help me through this tough time. I'm very encouraged by the support I've received and am confident we will resolve this so I can make it right for my wife.

Thank you all, god bless.

[oweban]

And help you through we shall!

*puts on cape*

[GTR-N1]

Yeps, I've got cash I can throw your way. And deffo have some BBQs at the clubhouse etc; we all wanna help where we can

Yup.

Echo that!

Lots of great guys in this terrific SAU.NSW.

How is your neck and shoulder now Eric? I hope you had this sprain/injury attended to by the Dr (and noted)?

[DaveO74]

Good point Terry,

Eric get something, even that you saw a doctor for your shoulder re a car accident on blah blah date.

Different situation but I had an accident 10 years ago where I broke my neck, now I'm up for surgery to fix nerve damage and if it wasn't noted by the Doctor at the time I would now be screwed and have to pay for the operation myself.

Future proof yourself mate you never know.

Hopefully your shoulder will not go the way my neck has but you don't want that on you as well.

And let's get this BBQ or whatever going execs!

[GTR-N1]

Good point Terry,

Eric get something, even that you saw a doctor for your shoulder re a car accident on blah blah date.

Different situation but I had an accident 10 years ago where I broke my neck, now I'm up for surgery to fix nerve damage and if it wasn't noted by the Doctor at the time I would now be screwed and have to pay for the operation myself.

Future proof yourself mate you never know.

Hopefully your shoulder will not go the way my neck has but you don't want that on you as well.

And let's get this BBQ or whatever going execs!

^ ^ ^ Yup Dave.

Drs can now trace (often) that an emerging complaint was triggered even 5-10 yrs ago.

AASA (and not CTP) (thanks to wealth of info by "D") carries insurance.

[Thunder]

As the owner of Sureflo and the 300zx, I would like to clarify a few things.

Sorry for the long post.

No matter what spin is put on this, it was a tragic accident, and there are 3 innocent victims, not 1 innocent victim.

The race car was borrowed by a good friend - Jason, to drive in the SAU/RENEW event.

Jason has previously driven this car at Oran Park, the Nissan Nationals at Morgan Park and has competed at Bathurst in his own R32 GTR Skyline.

From my understanding, Jason was going to drive my car and his friend Richard, was going to drive Jason's Skyline.

I had never met Richard, and from what Jason told me afterwards, he has driven many thousands of laps at Wakefield and was a test driver for a V8 Supercar team.

The car was entered by them, and Sureflo had no involvement in the event, nor were any of us at the track.

We were told it was a timed event and our only interest was seeing what lap time the car could get.

There were trophies for the fastest lap at this event, therefore, it was a speed event and people were encouraged to go fast.

Both Richard and Eric signed forms acknowledging that Motorsport is dangerous and accidents occur, and accepting the responsibility and the consequences of a day at the track.

Sureflo did not enter the event, did not sign anything, and were hundreds of kilometres away from the track at the time.

Richard said the brakes were working beautifully, there was no warning, no deterioration, the brakes just stopped working when he tried to brake at turn 10.

Richard has more experience at this track than most people racing cars, and it was his knowledge and split second decision, that told him he had a better chance dropping back a gear and taking the corner than he did if he ploughed through the kitty litter and head on into the wall. Richard believes he would have made the corner if Eric wasn't there.

When the car slid on the grass, Richard had no chance of avoiding Eric, so Richard is as much a victim as Eric. Richard had no brakes and was doing his best at the time.

On the day, no one had the benefit of a crystal ball, video replays or the benefit of hindsight. This happened in a split second, and the only person who could have done anything about avoiding the accident was Eric.

He was in control of his car and travelling very slowly, a potentially dangerous thing to do on any part of the race track. If Eric was exiting at a reasonable speed, or been aware of what was happening around him and sped up, he would have avoided the accident.

I am not blaming Eric, as he was merely in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Similarly, I am not blaming Richard, as he was doing the best he could at the time, and once the car slid on the grass, he was unable to change direction to avoid Eric.

We have looked at the car and there is no split brake line, the pedal box has not collapsed, the master cylinder is still full of new brake fluid, and the brake pads are showing very little wear from new.

The discs look like they have got hot, and all I can pinpoint is the brakes must have got too hot as there is no visible mechanical reason for them to have stopped working.

Even after the accident, the brakes were working at our factory, so it must have been a heat issue.

Up until the point where the brakes stopped working, the driver said they were working perfectly.

There has been criticism levelled at me, my company, my car and also the driver.

To say that Richard is morally liable is wrong. Both drivers knew the risks, agreed to the rules, and signed the waiver.

Yes, the 300zx was fitted with a fire extinguisher, but instead of stopping to put out the fire in the 300zx, Richard raced to the aid of Eric and his passenger instead.

This says a lot about Richard's morals.

Could Richard have done anything humanly possible to avoid Eric's car???

No !

So, how could he be morally liable?

Rightly or wrongly, in all forms of motor racing, unless the accident is deliberate, each party pays for their own damage.

Everyone knows the risks, and this is the reason they sign the waiver, and these are the rules everyone has agreed to, and abides by.

This isn't a new rule that came into force last week, and lots of people get caught on the wrong side of an accident.

Everyone has to remember that car racing is expensive.

It is a dangerous sport and very high speeds are involved.

This particular corner is notorious for accidents and every driver on a race track needs to be aware of what is happening around them.

When cars are racing and reaching speeds of over 200km/h trying to beat their previous times, there is no place on the track where it is safe to be doing 50 - 60km/h.

If Eric was watching what was going on, or if Eric was leaving the track at a reasonable speed, this would not have happened to him.

At the time of the accident, he was the ONLY person that was able to do something about the predicament and the ONLY one who could have avoided the impact.

As harsh as it sounds, this matter is between the 2 drivers and no one else, unless others want to help either party.

I feel sorry for Eric, the same as everyone else does.

I also feel sorry for Richard, as he had no way of avoiding Eric, and did the best he could under the circumstances.

I also feel sorry for myself. We were not a party to this event, I loaned the car to a friend, yet we have been dragged into this mess, and to top it off, our car has a lot more damage than Eric's car.

As I mentioned, there are 3 victim's in this, not one, and there are no winners - everyone loses in situations like this.

I own this car, but I have never driven it. Dan drives it for me in Drift events, and Jason drives it for me in circuit events.

I don't drive it, as I know that it needs someone with experience and talent driving it.

This is a dedicated race car, and it is driven by experienced race car drivers.

If I had been stupid enough to drive it myself with a 1 day licence, and I stuffed up through my inexperience or negligence, this would be a different matter, but it was being driven by an experienced race car driver, it was a freak accident, it was a speed event, and I wasn't even at the track.

This incident is similar to being hit by a bolt of lightning.

Eric was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and it is no ones fault - it just happened.

Everyone is an expert after the event, but prior, no one had a crystal ball.

If I didn't lend my car out !

If Richard came in a lap earlier !

If Eric sped up !

If Eric came in a lap earlier !

What happened is done and there is no changing this, so it is pointless trying to point the finger and blame someone else, or try to change the rules after the event.

What happened is tragic, a disaster, unfortunate, unavoidable - there was no malice, no guilty party, it just happened.

Watch the V8 supercars or the Brute Utes, etc there are always cars that are casualties through no fault of their own, but this is part and parcel of car racing.

As someone mentioned previously, Richard had just had a high speed accident, and done his best to protect his passenger as well as himself, and unfortunately he hit Eric's car.

The first thing he did was rush to the aid of Eric and his passenger.

This wasn't a low speed bingle on a public road, there are no insurance companies, no exchanging of details, etc.

Richard had probably just seen his life flash before his eyes, and it probably scared the crap out of him.

Meanwhile, Eric was oblivious to all of this, and the first he knew about the accident was probably when his car came to rest.

If Eric's exhaust has been damaged, we will fix it for free.

This is not because our car was involved, but because I feel sorry for Eric, and I am willing to help, the same as everyone else on this forum.

I applaud the members of this club getting behind Eric and trying to help him out of this terrible situation.

However, threats of legal action, calling the driver all sorts of names under the sun, threatening my business, etc does nothing to help this situation, and if anything, makes this situation worse.

I hope the contents of this thread change to helping Eric out of this situation, rather than defaming and blaming others, and I hope the fund raising is a success, and covers Eric's costs.

Regards,

Greg Stevenson

[Beer Baron]

yeah pretty fair post from Greg, except perhaps the part about eric being able to avoid the accident. he might have seen the car coming and decided to speed and at the same moment richard decides to dive in front and they still would have hit. same goes for reasonable speed. he was well down the pit exit and at that point it's pretty fair to expect him to be exiting at a low rate of speed. no one wants to turn up at the 40km/h pit entrance and have to stand on the anchors and lock the thing up trying to slow down. he was not pulling in for a craig lowndes style pit stop after all...

But just to reiterate my own motorsport experience. you enter the track, you sign the waiver, you accept responsibility for your own vehicle. i've seen accidents that were far worse than this one (both in damage caused and in how they were caused) and I've NEVER heard of a driver offering to pay for another drivers car. it's just the way it is. i've run a porsche gt3 with 2 friends of mine for a couple of years and one weekend he got hit up the ass 3 times and a cost of $6,000 for each carbon kevlar rear bumper. in the end the porsche centre ran out and sold us a used one for a bargain $4,000... imagine how he felt! he had clowns hitting up the back passage and one clown t-boned him and fked his door and sill panel (don't even ask what they cost) and that was in a practice - non-timed) session for gods sake! no one came round with a 'sorry mate' or an offer to pay. we just took it on the chin and kept going.

unfortunately people sometimes drive poorly on the track and sometimes they'll end up on top of you. it's a risk we take when entering any event on a closed circuit. but if you think it's bad you should see tourist sessions at the nurburgring! last day I was there were 2 fatalities and more accidents than I could count.

I've also seen some horrible single car accidents that were just shit luck. one cost a mate of mine around $120,000... nasty.

luckily you were not badly hurt which is the main thing. hopefully with help from our club you can get the car going again and get back out there.

[Pezhead]

Greg, I find your statements totally infuriating.

To say I was at fault is a crock! It IS the responsibility of the faster car to safely overtake any other car. When I exited the track I did check mirrors and went to the far outside to ensure I was out of the way of any faster car. I have the video and can prove this fact. Even V8 Supercars are expected to slow to 60 k's in Pit lane! To say it was my responsibility to get out of the way of the other car is completely off base. It IS the responsibilty of the car that has lost control to minimise the risk to others.

It is clear to me from my video that Richard would have hit the tyre barrier if he had not hit me. The impact to my car actually lessened the damage to yours. I would expect you to understand that since you are experienced in racing.

I am not attempting to fix blame on anyone - this was an accident were it brake failure or not. I have never said anyone deliberatly hit me an my passenger. What I have said is that I would expect more assistance in getting my car back roadworthy.

We can continue to argue our points but I am choosing to outline where we agree and we will just simply have to dissagree on the rest.

I agree that on the race track, there are inherit risks and signing a waiver I agreed to the risks as outlined in that document.

I agree that this was an accident which was unfortunate for all parties involved.

Frankly I am the one who has taken the intiative to turn my situation around and getting assistance from my club community. You could have just as well done this as you have commercial contacts who could have offered more help. I am the one taking charge of my own destiny and turning my negative situation into a positive outcome.

I am honestly a bit offended by many of your comments but will choose to let it lie as I have to focus my energy and attention to getting my own affairs in order.

[r32-25t]

so what your saying is you sent it out with old brake fluid, it boiled and he lost all braking ability untill the fluid cooled down and the brakes worked again or the brakes pads you used in the car were to inefficient to do the job? as really there is nothing else that can cause the issues you are describing,

being part of a pit crew, unfortunately i do agree with you saying it was a racing incident,

but i also beleive poor maintenance or poor product choose contributed to this accident

and him not going fast enough on pit entry is a cop out, as we all know there are speed limits with in the pit area and it doesnt take a metre to go from full speed to 40-60km/h

[Angus Smart]

Hey Eric..

all cars that are "written off" in nsw now are stat writeoffs... so you could pick up a whole mx5 for quiet cheap.. there are always some on pickles..

Will also pm you something else which might help with funds..

[hamiltonau]

yeah if he hadnt tried to pin it on eric with the pit lane thing it would have been a lot classier sure he says

I am not blaming Eric, as he was merely in the wrong place at the wrong time.

but then goes on to say

there is no place on the track where it is safe to be doing 50 - 60km/h.

If Eric was watching what was going on, or if Eric was leaving the track at a reasonable speed, this would not have happened to him.

At the time of the accident, he was the ONLY person that was able to do something about the predicament and the ONLY one who could have avoided the impact.

little bit of a contradiction there me thinks, as for risking the turn instead of kitty litter, arent professional racers meant to look around the corner to beyond the apex? might have seen erics car if he did that and reconsidered..then again it was all in a split second and of course the guy didnt want to hit anyone just.

Seems like a series of errors eg, old/low quality brake fluid and simple mistakes mid corner.

It was painful hearing about that Porsche owners expensive shunts and it certainly puts this one in perspective, still it seems a lot of aggro here could have been avoided if Richard had been a little more conversational on the day and outlined his postion with a little more tact rather than a dismissive 'too bad, wheres my coat?'

Still some lessons learned on both sides it seems, certainly shoving a writ through the window of the next person who rear ends me on the track might not be a good idea but i hope i would be able to sit down with them and hash it out afterwards with some measure of civility.

anyway main thing is we are all behind Eric in his quest to get the wifes little dream car back on the road and i for one cant wait for the first fundraiser..19th of march anyone?

[benm]

Richard has more experience at this track than most people racing cars, and it was his knowledge and split second decision, that told him he had a better chance dropping back a gear and taking the corner than he did if he ploughed through the kitty litter and head on into the wall. Richard believes he would have made the corner if Eric wasn't there.

Richard needs to stop pulling himself.

Jumping over a ripple strip and hitting someone that is in the pit entry lane (a good 3 or 4 car widths off the main circuit) is not "would have made the corner".

This happened in a split second, and the only person who could have done anything about avoiding the accident was Eric.

He was in control of his car and travelling very slowly, a potentially dangerous thing to do on any part of the race track. If Eric was exiting at a reasonable speed, or been aware of what was happening around him and sped up, he would have avoided the accident.

Greg now you need to stop pulling yourself.

Regardless of the situation the car behind is always at fault. Eric had exited the main circuit in the correct manner, was on the pit entry lane (had to slow for a 90 degree corner on the pit exit lane) and was taken out by an out of control car that was out of his field of view from mirrors.

So who will be paying for the damage caused to the SureFlo car?

Greg?

SureFlo?

Jason?

Richard?

[hamiltonau]

er sorry ben meant to plus your post and accidently hit minus.

anyway big plus one from me and can someone fix that? not that anyone pays attention to the damn things

i didnt even see that re. the ripple strip then attempting to 'turn out of it' crazy stuff trying to justify that as a legit racing move.

[gregor]

and him not going fast enough on pit entry is a cop out, as we all know there are speed limits with in the pit area and it doesnt take a metre to go from full speed to 40-60km/h

The exit lane is pretty narrow and a reasonably tight turn. Not sure how fast everyone exited but i reckon 40-60 is what i was doing at that point too.

Still not even a thanks for us putting out the fire in the 300, would have been much worse if we didnt.

[smart_one]

THE LEGAL SIDE

In other developments, I've received the legal waver that I did have to sign on the track day.

It does look pretty clear and air tight that I do not have any recourse with the other parties. I will discuss it with my wife, but I think it will be money wasted to see a solicitor.

The form reads:

Each of the undersigned for himself/herself, his/her personal representative, heirs and next of kin,

[excerpt from clause 2]

Hereby releases waives, discharges and covenants not to sue Wakefield Park Motorsport Pty. Ltd, the landowners, promoters, participants, racing associations, sanctioning organisations or any subdivision thereof, track operators, officials, car owners, drivers, pit crews, rescue personnel, any persons in any restricted areas, promoters, sponsors, (etc, etc) from all liability, to the undersigned, his/her personal on account of injury to the person or property (etc, etc)

Not good to hear mate. Still could have been worse but extremely unfortunate. Hope that your injuries arn't long lasting or creep up on you in the future.

People ask me all the time why I don't take my cars on track days with cars that arn't exotics.... simply because the other guy in his "300zx" doesn't give a shit about your car and isn't legally obliged to contribute to repairs he causes to other cars, and for one reason or another may even intentionally hit you because of the car you drive. Atleast the exotic driver in the other car has too much to loose by hitting another car uninsured. Sad but that is the society we live in today.

Edited March 9, 2011 by smart_one