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Spat Power Steering Belt With New Ross Tuffbond

abr33

By abr33,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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r33_racer Grand Master

r33_racer

Posted
Posted

We did a similar thing on our race car. we run the 1000hp ati. We use the autronic cas disc for TDC reference. Except we attached the trigger wheel to the front side of the timing gear and the sensor bolts off the oil pump. It all ends up being hidden behind the damper.

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infamous_t
infamous_t

Someone else on another forum having the same problem, only he worked out how to fix it... power steering pulley was on the piss! Worth checking. http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/241625-pas-belts-flying-o

R32 TT
R32 TT

mmm.. glad he fixed it. but in my case I am 110% sure this was not the issue. Went to great lengths to ensure it was perfectly lined up and straight. Even bought a laser alignment tool just to be

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GTRsean Grand Master

GTRsean

Posted
Posted

Just did a full build on a RB26.

Tomei 2.8 kit etc.

Ross dampener with crank trigger wheel and power steering 20% underdrive

All items were balanced and crank, then ross dampener, crank gear, then the flywheel and housing, were balanced on the balancing machine.

Currently I'm on the 4th powersteering belt, even with 20% underdrive on the power steering.

And have spat 1 aircon belt when the power steering belt came off the 4th time.

It's nearly killed, or written off the car twice due to suddenly loosing power steering when you need it most!!...

So, what I have experienced is harmonics from the crank, and the dampener is not doing it's job.

I get very noticeable vibration at 6500RPM (free reving, and holding at that RPM point as well as driving).

And some vibration between 7000-8000RPM. Even took the car to an experienced engine builder/rebuilder and showed him, and he agreed that the dampener could be faulty as it is not suficiently reducing the crank twist/harmonics.

As the inline 6 configuration has great 1st order and 2nd order harmonics, but inherently bad at 3rd order harmonics, having an effective dampener is extremely important. More relevant as we see RB's hitting over 6-7-8000RPM in their normal factory rev range!

I'm pretty sure mine is faulty, and have ordered a brand new standard balancer to see if the problem really is the dampener.

If I leave it as is it will:

1.keep throwing belts at high rpm

2.cause other damage to engine components such as the block(cracking from harmonic vibrations),

flywheel bolts maybe rattling loose,

and oil pump damage/failure.

I'll post here again once I have changed the dampener :/

R32 TT Mentor

R32 TT

Posted
Posted

Did you say you 'balanced' the Ross Damper? I don't think you should have to - it should be balanced from factory.

Also - if you can feel very noticeable vibration - even free revving, then I wonder if you haven't got something more serious going on.

FWIW, I couldn't 'feel' anything wrong with my engine - it just kept blowing power steering belts off (and now the cambelt)

Sure will be interesting though if a stock balancer fixes it.

kitto Mentor

kitto

Posted
Posted

Yeah your not meant to balance ROSS balancers. They are balanced from factory.

If you replace it with an OEM balancer, what are you going to be about the lacking trigger disc on the OEM balancer?

The Bogan Grand Master

The Bogan

Posted
Posted

Mine just didnt line up right, about 5mm out from balancer to power steering pulley, slotted out the power steering bracket 5mm and its fine.

I had everything balanced but they said there is no need to do the balancer, never had a vibration at all.

Though I only rev to 7200 and the limit is set at 7500, but it does rev up real fast once it gets to 4500.

JustinP Mentor

JustinP

Posted
Posted

I'm pretty sure mine is faulty, and have ordered a brand new standard balancer to see if the problem really is the dampener.

If I leave it as is it will:

1.keep throwing belts at high rpm

2.cause other damage to engine components such as the block(cranking from harmonic vibrations),

flywheel bolts maybe rattling loose,

and oil pump damage/failure.

I'll post here again once I have changed the dampener :/

Very interested to see if the stock balancer fixes the vibration issue...

Dasmbo Collaborator

Dasmbo

Posted
Posted

Hi years ago when i used to play with v8 engines if you had a lightened flywheel and used a large hi po balancer on the front of the engine it would occasionaly spit belts off this was mainly on small journal engines when changed to a lighter one didnt spit belts anymore.I put it down to the rpm and harmonics from the drive train.

Maybe the same is happening here ?????

  • 1 month later...
EAT26 Community Regular

EAT26

Posted
Posted

Mine just didnt line up right, about 5mm out from balancer to power steering pulley, slotted out the power steering bracket 5mm and its fine.

I had everything balanced but they said there is no need to do the balancer, never had a vibration at all.

Though I only rev to 7200 and the limit is set at 7500, but it does rev up real fast once it gets to 4500.

+1 my ross tuff bound balancer didn't align with the power steering pump... however since I still hold the twin turbo set up... we were unable to get to the power steering bracket... We opted for taking out the power steering pump and sanding part of the rear to allow the pump to be pushed back further... It fixed my issue, I have given the car a bit of a hard time since doing so to test it and haven't thrown or eaten a belt since.

discopotato03 Grand Master

discopotato03

Posted
Posted

I'm sure most of you know but I didn't know until Ross told me that the power steer drive pully offset on the balancer is different RB26 vs RB25 and RB30 .

So obviously if you used the RB26 version on a 25 or 30 the pump has to move forward to line up . Likewise if you put the 25 version on a 26 the pumps own pulley will be too far forward .

A .

GTRsean Grand Master

GTRsean

Posted
Posted

Did you say you 'balanced' the Ross Damper? I don't think you should have to - it should be balanced from factory.

Also - if you can feel very noticeable vibration - even free revving, then I wonder if you haven't got something more serious going on.

FWIW, I couldn't 'feel' anything wrong with my engine - it just kept blowing power steering belts off (and now the cambelt)

Sure will be interesting though if a stock balancer fixes it.

A few of you have asked why I got the Ross balancer balanced. I went and got it straight from him at his shop and he assembled all the pieces from his parts rack.

He did not balance it for me as I said I'd get it done at engine reco's. He just uses a wheel balance machine anyways...

So I changed to a brand new stock balancer and yep, it's as good as new. no more harmonics or thrown belts.

Ross one is getting sent back to find out what happened to the dampener, whether it has de-lammed or something else.

Also pulled trigger setup off for now too.

I'm just happy it's smooth again!

R32 TT Mentor

R32 TT

Posted
Posted

So I changed to a brand new stock balancer and yep, it's as good as new. no more harmonics or thrown belts.

Ross one is getting sent back to find out what happened to the dampener, whether it has de-lammed or something else.

wow. good enough for me - I know my mind is made up now.

Thanks for posting.

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