Vipec Plug In , The Major Advantages Over Pfc ?

[discopotato03]

I may be getting to the stage where I've outgrown my PFC and its , or Datalogits , limitations are frustrating .

Its hard to know whats going on inside the PFCs tiny brain when Datalogits software doesn't give you complete access to all its functions . I think the selling points of PFCs is that they try to be a reasonably straightforward thing and are capable of getting acceptable results depending on where the user/tuner is with "acceptable" .

I'd like to hear from those that migrated from a PFC to a Vipec or G4 Plug in because thats what I'm contemplating ATM .

Please don't turn MY thread into a Link vs Vipec war because I've read all the previous ones and they get everyone nowhere fast . I would buy from Scott at Insight because I know him from a distance and I believe in trying to support a tuner who is a dealer . Also people I know and trust think highly of his facility and tuning skills .

I want something thats capable of giving better than standard drivability - start - idle - return to idle - mixture/timing/boost control and has a few flex fuel smarts available as well . I want a choice of MAP or MAF and I couldn't care less about wasted spark ignition .

It has to drive nicely because its a daily which also means fuel consumption needs to be reasonable in a car thats mostly driven "normally" .

Only want to hear from Vipec Plug In converts , cheers Adrian .

[KiwiRS4T]

More modern - more capacity - more features - continual development

[R31Nismoid]

I want something thats capable of giving better than standard drivability - start - idle - return to idle - mixture/timing/boost control

PFC can do this

flex fuel smarts available as well . I want a choice of MAP or MAF and I couldn't care less about wasted spark ignition .

The things a PFC can not do.

So it's just a case of you answering your own question:

getting acceptable results depending on where the user/tuner is with "acceptable" .

A ECU will only ever be as good as the guy setting it all up for you. That's basically the answer.

So most peoples "experiences" will just be "yep my car drives sweet, runs great", and probably because they had to go a Vipec for Flex setups and extra logging (EGT for eg). It's the tuner that is responsible for that.

Also note there are plenty of people out there however they will say their car "runs great, drives awesome", but then you might see it and it's utterly rubbish (10 sec to fire, doughy off throttle etc) - all because they don't know any better. This isn't a mark of a bad ECU, just a rubbish tuner.

Same also will go for those coming from a PFC, it was bad, wouldn't idle etc - it's nothing to do with the ECU in almost every instance.

[RB 30]

Have a V44 Vipec plug in. " Limiited experience " but started and idled better than the Dejetro PFC, ( Could have been setup )

Like having Duel fuel maps :- eg low boost pump fuel, High boost E85.

Had a problem with the 4wd computer getting a dirty signal for the vipec.

Does the job for me, street, strip and track.

[Manuel Kasko]

As ash said and also what ever your tuner is more comfortable at tuning. He is the guy doing it so maybe this is a question for him?

If he likes link more then obviously he is more comfortable with that product so will do a better job and vise versa

[Deano 1]

I'm the same I want to upgrade my ecu, but I just can't part with it. I like the hand control, all the new ecu's don't have hand controls as far as I'm aware

[33GTRV]

Advantages: Quick tune, Maf OR MAP, greater res on the tables, almost infinite support via the man(ray hall) and the forums, Dual maps, limited motorsport features(anti-lag and launch control, some models have flatshifting as well), Direct plug in, expansion capabilities via the expansion harnes

Cons: umm, yeah, maybe the cost?

[mico]

hand controller was the main reason i went with the d jetro. that and its a reliable computer thats trusted and been used for years.

[discopotato03]

I virtually always used datalogit , my controller wouldn't even be run in . I gave up on it as soon as it caused problems with the Datalogit .

I really would like to have access to the idle learning stuff and injection timing .

People keep telling me that PFCs are a bit light on processing power and I'm not sure if they do things in real time like the current crop of EMSs seem to .

I like most of the features Vipec plug ins have and being in the OE case gives a bit more stealth protection - not that anyones ever wanted to look inside my kick panel .

One thing I would like to know is if the Vipec can use the Apexis boost control solenoid and map sensor since they're already in place .

I remember Scott telling me a while back that using the Z32 is no problem but I think I'd fit the air temp sensor anyway to leave the MAP option open .

A .

[WMDC35]

should be able to use most 2 wire boost control solenoids

[Moodles2]

Pretty sure the apexi solenoid is just a standard mac valve, Vipec should control it no probs.

[Roy]

Every 12 months or so I read the Vipec forum and I still read way too many "how to' , "why does" questions. Great that Vipec has support, but seems to need it. Last time I read it was still waiting upgrades to be able to do some of the things it was meant to. Has that changed? Was meant to have launch control, boost control for certain gears, being rwd thats the feature I am interested in...along with traction control and other advertised features that had not been fully developed

They do seem to be the realm of the tinkerer....I run E85 and 98 tunes in my Power Fc and runs fine at the moment so really the Vipecs really need to make those feature accessible for me to consider upgrading, I need a new ECU due to the NEO head on the RB20 I have coming....so interested in options

[Lithium]

The short of it is the flexibility and power of the G4 Link. A general summary of the things that (not that I have done with the PFC) I believe would potentially make you miss if you went the other way:

- Link Electronic Boost control - multiple tables, very user definable closed loop rules, 2d tables, basically all sorts of stuff - I tried to do a few cool things with it and they've all worked a treat so far.

- No MAF required.

- 4/5D tables and Dual Tables (or 6D if you so desire) on ignition and fuel - and all fuel/ign tables have user definable axis so you can set up your own trims for varying situations, this really can be used for all sorts of stuff... you may not know until you hit the situations and again I have gone back to other ECUs and miss having the freedom of getting up to silly stuff.

- Ability to enabled/disable "things" based off definable conditions - up to 3 conditions can be used for deciding stuff. A simple (and my first experience) regarding this would be tuning an R33 GTS25t with VCT, I tuned the entire map with VCT off then enabled another fuel/ignition table and used the first tables I had created as a base - turned VCT on and optimised the "new" tune for the car with VCT on. I set up VCT to turn on after a particular RPM and load and I set up the "VCT" tune to enable when VCT enabled. After the two tunes were optimised I could do dyno runs to find the optimal overlay point and just select it, then know the tune was dialled in perfectly for a nice smooth transition. Just an example, but it is nice - I like.

- No brainer regarding flexfuel capability. Again, the above features are what make the flexfuel thing work well with G4 Links - its not JUST the fact that it can process the input from a Siemens sensor... it's what you can do with that data afterwards which is the bigger strength over a PFC

- Support (will continuously get enhancements too)

- Resolution

- Launch control, E-Throttle Control, I'm sure there are other points of interest I can't think of off hand...

Thats more or less the first stuff that comes to mind when asked about what I think about going between the two ECUs, anyway.

[Lithium]

Last time I read it was still waiting upgrades to be able to do some of the things it was meant to. Has that changed? Was meant to have launch control, boost control for certain gears, being rwd thats the feature I am interested in...along with traction control and other advertised features that had not been fully developed

I assumed that the Link having those features meant the ViPEC would - perhaps it doesn't?! Go the Link plug-in, perhaps. I don't have the software here, but from memory the boost per gear on the Link was on the simpler side - basically allowing you to trim the numbers from the solenoid duty cycle table based on the gear you are in, going either up or down from the base numbers against which gear you are in.

Launch control works fine, haven't tried traction control, none of the features I've wanted (and would have guessed you'd need) are not implemented on the Link.

[33GTRV]

Roy, it has been fixed for a long time. People just dont update firmware for some reason. They arent wi-fi or 3g capable ecu's lol. Pretty much everything the link doea the vipec does, they are essentially one and the same. I just like the vipec for the support and constant development ray and his team are doing, and bieng so open about it. Im not bias towards any particular brand, just to what works. Haltech, link, morristech, vipec, motec all work and do as they are designed to. Shop around, look what the tuner is comfortable and confident with and go from there.

[discopotato03]

Thanks for the replies and PMs , the findings are interesting .

Something else I'd like to know is if their G4 Extreme/V88 has anything aside from real race car features that would make them a better thing . I know they are not a plug in and you lose the stealth thing , and while I haven't looked for a while I think they used to cost about a grand more than the plug in ?

And MASS AFMs , I don't know of anyone thats kept their Z32/VH44s with G4/Vipecs and would that be because of BOV return issues ?

Surely they don't flow that terribly ?

Cheers A .

[Lithium]

I personally prefer MAP sensors, and AFMs are worth money so I'd sell off AFMs every time haha.

I've never actually tuned a car running an Extreme, unless you have specific reason to need one I personally wouldn't bother. Have got a car running with flexfuel, warning lights (for low oil pressure, shift light type things), oil pressure and AFR logging... off the top of my head. Which reminds me, PFC doesn't do datalogging that I am aware of - with the Link you can do ECU datalogging and have it enabled or disabled by a flick of a switch, then download later when you plug t into a PC. Very very convenient.

[Dale FZ1]

Something else I'd like to know is if their G4 Extreme/V88 has anything aside from real race car features that would make them a better thing ... I haven't looked for a while I think they used to cost about a grand more than the plug in ?

And MASS AFMs , I don't know of anyone thats kept their Z32/VH44s with G4/Vipecs and would that be because of BOV return issues ?

Surely they don't flow that terribly ?

The V88 really is a high end motorsport-spec unit. The plug in V44 is more than adequate for any road or club motorsport application.

Regardless of branding, either the Vipec or Link are a good thing, and a clear step forwards from the PFC.

Achieving a stable return to idle while running PFC and AFM with hard inlet pipe is something commonly reported, and a source of frustration. Flow capacity of either a Z32 or VH45 AFM was never an issue but making it behave nicely under all conditions can be.

Lithium's comments are all on the mark. Besides all the good features, the ability to log significan amounts of data beyond the capabilities of PFC/Datalogit, and onboard the ECU adds extra icing to a tasty cake.

[ARTZ]

IMO Disco if you want better driveability, first thing you should do is get the best injectors you can if you haven't already get IDs or something similar to start with...they are the game changers in this department..

Everybody knows the PFC is a more than capable unit, regardless of this though newer ECUS are just as good, if not better and put simply they often have more options.. So it doesn't always matter if you need them or not cause new toys are always cool..

So enough with the politics...a vipec would make a great xmas pressie..

I'm the same I want to upgrade my ecu, but I just can't part with it. I like the hand control, all the new ecu's don't have hand controls as far as I'm aware

Yeah but everybody has laptops these days,back in 1990s they weren't so common so the hand controller may have been more a necessity..

We have computers now that are smaller than a PFC hand controller and I believe some ecus even have android/apple apps already ...

if not yet, they will soon...

[Deano 1]

The first ecu that comes out with an App to monitor or tune your car... thats the one ill be buying.Be just too easy.