Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

19 hours ago, usmair said:

First semi decent run.... On 29psi, have wound up boost controller to try and get 31psi back

received_10157276461535467.jpeg

Good meeting you last night Umair! Plenty of mph there just need to get it down to the ground off the launch and it'll be easy 10's :)

  • Like 1
Considering the initial issues with production, and the fact that overspeeding may contribute to the Ti wheel failure I would think ensuring that they are below the max. speed would be important. This may have been mentioned, is warranty voided with overspeeding? If it can be proven one way or the other I suppose.

Yeah, seems weird that the majority of the people aren't able to provide any turbo speed logs..
9 hours ago, bigmikespec said:

Considering the initial issues with production, and the fact that overspeeding may contribute to the Ti wheel failure I would think ensuring that they are below the max. speed would be important. This may have been mentioned, is warranty voided with overspeeding? If it can be proven one way or the other I suppose.

If you run your data through matchbot it will give you a ballpark rpm figure and I am sure there is a good safety factor built in to BW recommended max rpm.

If your setup is close to BW max then buy a tacho setup or a bigger turbo in the first instance.

Running 22psi on mine and occasionally overboost to 30 which is redlining it I guess but I am sure it can handle it.

Cannot be bothered spending heaps for a paranoid gauge. 

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Meathead said:

Cannot be bothered spending heaps for a paranoid gauge. 

That's a load of bs, it's 150 additional.

Paranoid? The spec says so, engineers don't make this out of thin air, don't give me that bro science crap please. 

Sorry but this made me want to strangle a baby. 

  • Like 1
17 minutes ago, Meathead said:

you need to chill out a bit.

Sorry, I work with guys like that everyday and it gets to me every now and then when the same people proceed to tell me how my design works. Hint: It's the same guys that break shit and tell me they followed the specs of operation. 

Anyway, carry on. 

Edited by s2d4
  • Like 2

Khezz et. all.

I received a message from a moderator that I was out of line digging on you in the EFR turbos thread - so I'll formally apologize now. I didn't mean for my words to come off as harsh and was really just trying to queue you in that the past history of the other thread was that it went south from some people who made lots of claims about other turbos without accompanying data and started basically running our thread in the ground with those claims. I have tried very hard to stay purely objective because you will find that a lot of the EFR guys respond with "This turbo is super responsive and is just awesome" - a claim that is hard to backup without LOTS of comparing data. On the other hand it apparently triggers emotional responses from other turbo owners as well. So when others like yourself come in and talk about their decision to choose a turbo other than an EFR for a future theoretical rebuild with no other reasoning than brand name the red flag goes up for some us.

I truly hope you get your car finished and there is a wealth of information out there for setup advice. I have a HUGE build thread that will help you avoid mistakes that I made over the course of my build and again come back to us with some data when you are done. I can tell you that the precisions are pretty dang good turbos and you likely won't be disappointed - I ran one on my last racecar, but I can also tell you that the EFR I am running is truly un-paralleled in overall available features for the money. My wastegate, turbo, blow-off-vlave, boost control solenoid, and very shortly my turbo rpm sensor are wrapped up into one compact package (comparatively speaking) which has so far been an incredible choice for my engine especially given the price for all of it. The match-bot program is the best I have ever seen and I have helped plan 3 other turbo choices for other engines locally. For me, the decision was easy.

I see others are knocking the speed sensor, and it's a totally available option for the EFR. Do I think it's necessity? No. But as a mechanical engineer I will ALWAYS welcome more data and for the sake of the education I am taking the charge and will install it to know EXACTLY where I am at on the compressor map. One HUGE advantage of the EFR is the simplicity of this installation (it's already cast into the compressor housing). Doing this yourself without extensive machine work is a major undertaking on the Precision turbos and even then what would it tell you about where you are on the compressor map?

So please ALL posters start taking into consideration what you are saying and it's intentions. Please qualify your statements with actual data. I have provided LOTS of logs, videos, etc from my setup. So if you come here with "I'm loving my 3.0 L -5 setup" please give us some data to show why or how it compares to other data (spool times, dyno graphs, 1/4 mile times, data logs, etc). I'm running Haltech and I'll post any logs you like on my car (well what I can do on pumpgas for now).

Also To defend the rpm explosion claim and to further stick on topic: Perhaps Geoff could fill us in, but I haven't heard of it happening yet. They run these turbos on the US INDY car circuit here, so they must be good for something!

  • Like 2
15 hours ago, s2d4 said:


Yeah, seems weird that the majority of the people aren't able to provide any turbo speed logs..

It actually seems like a really clever 'get out of jail free card' for BW... their first response at a failed wheel may be 'you oversped it', no refund. Response from customer would be 'no I didn't'... BW, 'we can tell from the failure you did, we are experts, and you didn't have a speed sensor in to monitor it'.

Synical? Yes, but BW are a huge company who really don't care about people.

However, I would still like to see a 9174 with a 1.45A/R on a stock stroke RB26 revving its ring hole off :) But I might let someone else try it first.

Khezz et. all.
I received a message from a moderator that I was out of line digging on you in the EFR turbos thread - so I'll formally apologize now. I didn't mean for my words to come off as harsh and was really just trying to queue you in that the past history of the other thread was that it went south from some people who made lots of claims about other turbos without accompanying data and started basically running our thread in the ground with those claims. I have tried very hard to stay purely objective because you will find that a lot of the EFR guys respond with "This turbo is super responsive and is just awesome" - a claim that is hard to backup without LOTS of comparing data. On the other hand it apparently triggers emotional responses from other turbo owners as well. So when others like yourself come in and talk about their decision to choose a turbo other than an EFR for a future theoretical rebuild with no other reasoning than brand name the red flag goes up for some us.
I truly hope you get your car finished and there is a wealth of information out there for setup advice. I have a HUGE build thread that will help you avoid mistakes that I made over the course of my build and again come back to us with some data when you are done. I can tell you that the precisions are pretty dang good turbos and you likely won't be disappointed - I ran one on my last racecar, but I can also tell you that the EFR I am running is truly un-paralleled in overall available features for the money. My wastegate, turbo, blow-off-vlave, boost control solenoid, and very shortly my turbo rpm sensor are wrapped up into one compact package (comparatively speaking) which has so far been an incredible choice for my engine especially given the price for all of it. The match-bot program is the best I have ever seen and I have helped plan 3 other turbo choices for other engines locally. For me, the decision was easy.
I see others are knocking the speed sensor, and it's a totally available option for the EFR. Do I think it's necessity? No. But as a mechanical engineer I will ALWAYS welcome more data and for the sake of the education I am taking the charge and will install it to know EXACTLY where I am at on the compressor map. One HUGE advantage of the EFR is the simplicity of this installation (it's already cast into the compressor housing). Doing this yourself without extensive machine work is a major undertaking on the Precision turbos and even then what would it tell you about where you are on the compressor map?
So please ALL posters start taking into consideration what you are saying and it's intentions. Please qualify your statements with actual data. I have provided LOTS of logs, videos, etc from my setup. So if you come here with "I'm loving my 3.0 L -5 setup" please give us some data to show why or how it compares to other data (spool times, dyno graphs, 1/4 mile times, data logs, etc). I'm running Haltech and I'll post any logs you like on my car (well what I can do on pumpgas for now).
Also To defend the rpm explosion claim and to further stick on topic: Perhaps Geoff could fill us in, but I haven't heard of it happening yet. They run these turbos on the US INDY car circuit here, so they must be good for something!

Fair call on all accounts. Once again, I never said Efr are a bad turbo. If I have angered any one. I apologise. Staying on topic. How would the 9180 iwg go on the 2.6L in terms of lag and response?

Will say despite being easy was nerve wracking drilling it.

Had it setup on an offset bit, realize now I should have put that on my mates Drill press/mill would have made it easier.

Once it's running all the logs to everyone's hearts content.

1474690716180.jpg

1474692271785.jpg

  • Like 3
17 hours ago, khezz said:


Fair call on all accounts. Once again, I never said Efr are a bad turbo. If I have angered any one. I apologise. Staying on topic. How would the 9180 iwg go on the 2.6L in terms of lag and response?

We had a standard R34 GTR on the Dyno with no mods other than cam gears,3.5" exhaust, 1000cc injectors and a Link G4+ on 95 octane fuel with a external gated 1.05 9180 and it wasn't too bad......was 18psi by 4500rpm, only took it to 500hp to preserve the engine until it is built as a 2.8

Looked laggyish.....but drove feeling responsive 

  • Like 1

In about a months time I will be able to have a back-to-back comparasion between a 8374 with a 0.92 internal gated turbo on a RB30 and a 8374 with a 1.05 with twin 40mm external gates.

Im changing just the rear housing on the car (other than going to a single E-Throttle).

I will also have a speed sensor, I have had one from the start, but had to make a multiplier as there wasn't one available at the time and I'm not sure it is correct as it shows a max of 125,000rpm. I have now got the unit that Full-Race sells so will see what the speed will be.

My car is on 98 octane pump gas, currently makes 650hp at all four wheels at full boost (20psi) at 3400rpm on a DynaPack Hub Dyno. The reason for change is the high backpressure I'm getting with the small exhaust housing, we can't squeeze anymore than 20psi out of it without it pushing the gate open and causing boost spikes.

Im hoping for a more flatter torque curve and better boost control, I don't necessarily need any more power.....but no doubt it will make a bit more anyway.

  • Like 4
21 hours ago, khezz said:

How would the 9180 iwg go on the 2.6L in terms of lag and response?

I ran the 9180 IWG on my 2.6L rb26 for a bit.  It was on full song by 4500 like chris said - but that's a tiny bit laggy for my preference. It made 750whp and broke my R33 trans 4th gear.  Then I installed an R34 6speed trans and really began to appreciate the turbo.  Now that i am putting the car back together i will probably go to a 9174 IWG next

I ran the 9180 IWG on my 2.6L rb26 for a bit.  It was on full song by 4500 like chris said - but that's a tiny bit laggy for my preference. It made 750whp and broke my R33 trans 4th gear.  Then I installed an R34 6speed trans and really began to appreciate the turbo.  Now that i am putting the car back together i will probably go to a 9174 IWG next

What's the performance difference between the 9180 and 9174?
The higher rpm count with the same front compressor should net more flow? Or is the 9174 choked on the turbine side? If so, what about the 1.45 housing?
  • Like 1

Wish me luck! Still trying pumpgas. Vids and logs to follow.d6cb983fedc80fd4fbbafedf261aa385.jpg

 

UPDATE************************
11.1 @ 122

Like what with the mph!? Got too aggressive with timing and it knocked at 7k in 3rd and 4th which kinda crushed my mph. Straight off the highway ran 11.47 @ 123.4 everyone was breaking all night so i only got 2 runs. Also this is 100% only 18-19 psi. I'll post logs when i get home.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



 

 

  • Like 4

Also it should be noted that I don't run "antilag" I only have a mapped rev limit vs. speed. At 0 speed I have a 5500 rpms limit that actually is setup to soft cut at 250 rpms before the limit (5250). This limit goes back to 8250 (essentially start soft cut at 8k) everywhere over 2 mph. It's a simple table to make. I found that if I launched with any sort of plus fuel and retarded timing antilag the turbo would spool so fast I would blow tires off the line every time. Just a note...VERY responsive turbo. My brother drove the car home and was just astounded at how well the turbo works with the car for drivability. And to think I'm not on E85 yet and it's likely got 150 more WHP in it!?


ec8f3457bea69d8c4bad34e3567d083d.jpg

 

  • Like 2

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • See if you can thermal epoxy a heatsink or two onto it?
    • The other problem was one of those "oh shit we are going to die moments". Basically the high spec Q50s have a full electric steering rack, and the povo ones had a regular hydraulic rack with an electric pump.  So couple of laps into session 5 as I came into turn 2 (big run off now, happily), the dash turned into a christmas tree and the steering became super heavy and I went well off. I assumed it was a tyre failure so limped to the pits, but everything was OK. But....the master warning light was still on so I checked the DTCs and saw – C13E6 “Heat Protection”. Yes, that bloody steering rack computer sitting where the oil cooler should be has its own sensors and error logic, and decided I was using the steering wheel too much. I really appreciated the helpful information in the manual (my bold) POSSIBLE CAUSE • Continuing the overloading steering (Sports driving in the circuit etc,) “DATA MONITOR” >> “C/M TEMPERATURE”. The rise of steering force motor internal temperature caused the protection function to operate. This is not a system malfunction. INSPECTION END So, basically the electric motor in the steering rack got to 150c, and it decided to shut down without warning for my safety. Didn't feel safe. Short term I'll see if I can duct some air to that motor (the engine bay is sealed pretty tight). Long term, depending on how often this happens, I'll look into swapping the povo spec electric/hydraulic rack in. While the rack should be fine the power supply to the pump will be a pain and might be best to deal with it when I add a PDM.
    • And finally, 2 problems I really need to sort.  Firstly as Matt said the auto trans is not happy as it gets hot - I couldn't log the temps but the gauge showed 90o. On the first day I took it out back in Feb, because the coolant was getting hot I never got to any auto trans issues; but on this day by late session 3 and then really clearly in 4 and 5 as it got hotter it just would not shift up. You can hear the issue really clearly at 12:55 and 16:20 on the vid. So the good news is, literally this week Ecutek finally released tuning for the jatco 7 speed. I'll have a chat to Racebox and see what they can do electrically to keep it cooler and to get the gears, if anything. That will likely take some R&D and can only really happen on track as it never gets even warm with road use. I've also picked up some eye wateringly expensive Redline D6 ATF to try, it had the highest viscosity I could find at 100o so we will see if that helps (just waiting for some oil pan gaskets so I can change it properly). If neither of those work I need to remove the coolant/trans interwarmer and the radiator cooler and go to an external cooler....somewhere.....(goodbye washer reservoir?), and if that fails give up on this mad idea and wait for Nissan to release the manual 400R
    • So, what else.... Power. I don't know what it is making because I haven't done a post tune dyno run yet; I will when I get a chance. It was 240rwkw dead stock. Conclusion from the day....it does not need a single kw more until I sort some other stuff. It comes on so hard that I could hear the twin N1 turbos on the R32 crying, and I just can't use what it has around a tight track with the current setup. Brakes. They are perfect. Hit them hard all day and they never felt like having an issue; you can see in the video we were making ground on much lighter cars on better tyres under brakes. They are standard (red sport) calipers, standard size discs in DBA5000 2 piece, Winmax pads and Motul RBF600 fluid, all from Matty at Racebrakes Sydney. Keeping in mind the car is more powerful than my R32 and weighs 1780, he clearly knows his shit. Suspension. This is one of the first areas I need to change. It has electronically controlled dampers from factory, but everything is just way too soft for track work even on the hardest setting (it is nice when hustling on country roads though). In particular it rolls into oversteer mid corner and pitches too much under hard braking so it becomes unstable eg in the turn 1 kink I need to brake early, turn through the kink then brake again so I don't pirouette like an AE86. I need to get some decent shocks with matched springs and sway bars ASAP, even if it is just a v1 setup until I work out a proper race/rally setup later. Tyres. I am running Yoko A052 in 235/45/18 all round, because that was what I could get in approximately the right height on wheels I had in the shed (Rays/Nismo 18x8 off the old Leaf actually!). As track tyres they are pretty poor; I note GTSBoy recently posted a porker comparo video including them where they were about the same as AD09.....that is nothing like a top line track tyre. I'll start getting that sorted but realistically I should get proper sized wheels first (likely 9.5 +38 front and 11 +55 at the rear, so a custom order, and I can't rotate them like the R32), then work out what the best tyre option is. BTW on that, Targa Tas had gone to road tyres instead of semi slicks now so that is a whole other world of choices to sort. Diff. This is the other thing that urgently needs to be addressed. It left massive 1s out of the fish hook all day, even when I was trying not too (you can also hear it reving on the video, and see the RPM rising too fast compared to speed in the data). It has an open diff that Infiniti optimistically called a B-LSD for "Brake Limited Slip Diff". It does good straight line standing start 11s but it is woeful on the track. Nismo seem to make a 2 way for it.
    • Also, I logged some data from the ECU for each session (mostly oil pressures and various temps, but also speed, revs etc, can't believe I forgot accelerator position). The Ecutek data loads nicely to datazap, I got good data from sessions 2, 3 and 4: https://datazap.me/u/duncanhandleyhgeconsultingcomau/250813-wakefield-session-2?log=0&data=7 https://datazap.me/u/duncanhandleyhgeconsultingcomau/250813-wakefield-session-3?log=0&data=6 https://datazap.me/u/duncanhandleyhgeconsultingcomau/250813-wakefield-session-4?log=0&data=6 Each session is cut into 3 files but loaded together, you can change between them in the top left. As the test sessions are mostly about the car, not me, I basically start by checking the oil pressure (good, or at least consistent all day). These have an electrically controlled oil pump which targets 25psi(!) at low load and 50 at high. I'm running a much thicker oil than recommended by nissan (they said 0w20, I'm running 10w40) so its a little higher. The main thing is that it doesn't drop too far, eg in the long left hand fish hook, or under brakes so I know I'm not getting oil surge. Good start. Then Oil and Coolant temp, plus intercooler and intake temps, like this: Keeping in mind ambient was about 5o at session 2, I'd say the oil temp is good. The coolant temp as OK but a big worry for hot days (it was getting to 110 back in Feb when it was 35o) so I need to keep addressing that. The water to air intercooler is working totally backwards where we get 5o air in the intake, squish/warm it in the turbos (unknown temp) then run it through the intercoolers which are say 65o max in this case, then the result is 20o air into the engine......the day was too atypical to draw a conclusion on that I think, in the united states of freedom they do a lot of upsizing the intercooler and heat exchanger cores to get those temps down but they were OK this time. The other interesting (but not concerning) part for me was the turbo speed vs boost graph: I circled an example from the main straight. With the tune boost peaks at around 18psi but it deliberately drops to about 14psi at redline because the turbos are tiny - they choke at high revs and just create more heat than power if you run them hard all the way. But you can also see the turbo speed at the same time; it raises from about 180,000rpm to 210,000rpm which the boost falls....imagine the turbine speed if they held 18psi to redline. The wastegates are electrically controlled so there is a heap of logic about boost target, actual boost, delta etc etc but it all seems to work well
×
×
  • Create New...