Garrett G Series

[omnigear]

to confirm the g30 660 t25 is a bolt on for the rb26? and the g25 is not?

[Lithium]

14 hours ago, omnigear said:

to confirm the g30 660 t25 is a bolt on for the rb26? and the g25 is not?

Not sure where any of this came from, but for what it's worth - I am pretty sure that the T25 G25 turbos will no be bolt on for the RB26, and there is no T25 option at all for the G30 660... currently only available in v-band.   

I suspect it would be folly to try making a G-series bolton upgrade to an RB26, really anything over 40lb/min turbos on stock manifolds on an RB26 is making life difficult no matter what wheels you use.. I suspect.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Lithium

[Full-Race Geoff]

^^^what he said.  No way will these bolt on to stock RB26 configuration.  you must use GTX if you are looking for that.

T25 G25 will work on SR20 however

[Butters]

Finally  ! 

Due Jan 2020.   https://www.garrettmotion.com/news/newsroom/article/garrett-performance-turbochargers-2019-sema/

 

New products launched at the Garrett booth at SEMA 2019

Among new products launched at the booth, G Series performance turbos as well as some of our PowerMax™ performance drop in line, for 2L Ford EcoBoost applications and the 3.5L PowerMax™ turbocharger upgrade. On turbochargers we are launching the new G Series 30 and G Series 35 turbos (G30-660, G30-770, G30-900 as well as G35-900 and G35-1050).

[Lithium]

Here's a dyno overlay of a GTX3076R Gen2 with .83a/r hotside overlayed with a G30-770 with .83a/r hot side on petrol at the same boost level.  This is on a stock RB25, so more a comparison of how it goes psi for psi within the GTX3076R's limit versus outright potential - which is worth noting that the G30-770 with .83a/r hotside is on paper very similar flow wise on both hot and cold side to an EFR8374 with 1.05a/r hotside:

[Butters]

Taking what I can from that graph. You are looking at ~150rpm faster spool and ~25 more hp once on boost ? 

 

Also thanks for sharing, so little data around at the moment  

[Lithium]

1 hour ago, Butters said:

Taking what I can from that graph. You are looking at ~150rpm faster spool and ~25 more hp once on boost ? 

Looks that way, boost for boost. The G30-770 compressor flows about 10% more efficiency for efficiency - give or take depending on where it is so on kill that difference should be able to be quite a lot better, and the .83a/r G30 turbine flows about comparable to the 1.01a/r GT30 turbine combo so this definitely is like going up a size in compressor flow and exhaust flow while losing no response.... which can actually end up feeling like an improvement in response given the extra flow all other things being equal.

So far the G30-770 is looking like it's real promising

 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Lithium

[Butters]

What is the boost at ?

I was thinking about going the g30-900 but it looks like the 770 will get my power goals as I will be on E85.

Do you know if the G30 and G35 same size inlet v-band ?

[Lithium]

1 minute ago, Butters said:

What is the boost at ?

I was thinking about going the g30-900 but it looks like the 770 will get my power goals as I will be on E85.

Do you know if the G30 and G35 same size inlet v-band ?

I've asked for boost graphs, will pass anything on if it becomes available but not particularly high boost afaik.  This is from the UK so it's on petrol, and will probably be Dyno Dynamics "flywheel" mode.

Can probably find out about the v-band dimensions from dimensional drawings on Garrettmotion 

[Lithium]

G30 diagram:

 

G35 diagram:

Interestingly the core centre to turbine outlet are 100.5mm from the G25 to the G35s, and the turbine inlet to turbine outlet centreline are 70mm across the range as well.   Seems like they've gone to lengths to try and make it easy as possible for any unit from the whole range can drop into the same location

[Kinkstaah]

These things are super promising, a SR20 from "A guy I know" recently just went 405rwkw on a SR20 at 29psi on E85... with a G25-660.

Worth picking over anything else right now, if only for packaging concerns which is an issue for pretty much any turbo build. At the very least very "Nice to have".

[No Crust Racing]

^ Full boost when? 

 

[Kinkstaah]

He gets ~7psi at 3000rpm, the delivery is very similar to the EFR7163 (and my 7670 of old) The car above has 256/260 cams in it which pull the power more to the topend than the Tomei 258's that I was referring to in the EFR thread.

 

Like the EFR's they don't spike onto boost suddenly due to yay transient. This car had timing pulled out and boost pulled out when it ramps up for traction and keeping max torque down to help keep the engine 'safe' as there's a little more revs to play with.

I would say a 550 is probably a better bet unless you really want to live north of 6000+ rpm.
 

[No Crust Racing]

Appreciate the info.  

 

[Lithium]

33 minutes ago, Kinkstaah said:

He gets ~7psi at 3000rpm, the delivery is very similar to the EFR7163 (and my 7670 of old) The car above has 256/260 cams in it which pull the power more to the topend than the Tomei 258's that I was referring to in the EFR thread.

Like the EFR's they don't spike onto boost suddenly due to yay transient. This car had timing pulled out and boost pulled out when it ramps up for traction and keeping max torque down to help keep the engine 'safe' as there's a little more revs to play with.

I would say a 550 is probably a better bet unless you really want to live north of 6000+ rpm.
 

Nice result, thanks for sharing - it drives me insane that the Mainline logo often overlaps the plots, but you can see that it is comfortably at 20psi by 4000rpm which is very solid for a ~400kw turbo setup on an SR20, definitely better than what I've seen EFR7670s do on them which is very good going.

[No Crust Racing]

Yep and given my usage is track based, I plan to spend my time in that upper 50% rev range. 

[Kinkstaah]

The main thing is how small the turbo is physically. That is a boon for track use, purely for heat management, clearance to lines, etc which is well worth it if you're beating on the things!

[Full-Race Geoff]

On 12/11/2019 at 8:32 PM, Butters said:

Do you know if the G30 and G35 same size inlet v-band ?

Yes, All G25/G30/G35 are outline interchangeable.  They share the same size inlet and outlet v-band geometry (not a coincidence)

On 12/11/2019 at 4:00 PM, Lithium said:

Here's a dyno overlay of a GTX3076R Gen2 with .83a/r hotside overlayed with a G30-770 with .83a/r hot side on petrol at the same boost level.  This is on a stock RB25, so more a comparison of how it goes psi for psi within the GTX3076R's limit versus outright potential - which is worth noting that the G30-770 with .83a/r hotside is on paper very similar flow wise on both hot and cold side to an EFR8374 with 1.05a/r hotside:

 

On 12/11/2019 at 8:25 PM, Lithium said:

The G30-770 compressor flows about 10% more efficiency for efficiency - give or take depending on where it is so on kill that difference should be able to be quite a lot better, and the .83a/r G30 turbine flows about comparable to the 1.01a/r GT30 turbine combo so this definitely is like going up a size in compressor flow and exhaust flow while losing no response.... which can actually end up feeling like an improvement in response given the extra flow all other things being equal.  So far the G30-770 is looking like it's real promising

 

 

+1

On 12/11/2019 at 8:41 PM, Lithium said:

G30 diagram:

 

G35 diagram:

Interestingly the core centre to turbine outlet are 100.5mm from the G25 to the G35s, and the turbine inlet to turbine outlet centreline are 70mm across the range as well.   Seems like they've gone to lengths to try and make it easy as possible for any unit from the whole range can drop into the same location

+2

On 12/12/2019 at 4:17 PM, Kinkstaah said:

He gets ~7psi at 3000rpm, the delivery is very similar to the EFR7163 (and my 7670 of old) The car above has 256/260 cams in it which pull the power more to the topend than the Tomei 258's that I was referring to in the EFR thread.

 

Like the EFR's they don't spike onto boost suddenly due to yay transient. This car had timing pulled out and boost pulled out when it ramps up for traction and keeping max torque down to help keep the engine 'safe' as there's a little more revs to play with.  I would say a 550 is probably a better bet unless you really want to live north of 6000+ rpm.
 

I agree 100% - the G25-550 is an outstanding turbocharger for the SR20DET.  Also worth noting the T25 flanged G25 would be a nice compliment to the OEM cast manifolds for a sleeper setup

Edited December 18, 2019 by Full-Race Geoff

[diesel des]

Hi guys, this is my first post on your forum, but I have been a long time lurker as I find there is plenty of good advice on here.  I have an Audi Ur quattro with a built 5 cylinder engine board and stroked to 2.5l, and I'm based in Northern Ireland uk. I have had some rotten luck with the engine, eating itself due to a breather issue and needing new rods and a crank, and then once rebuilt melting down while trying to map it myself on the road.  I have some mapping experience, but every car I have done before this has been somewhat refined and I could easily hear ping when I over did timing or boost. 

 

The quattro is a proper caged track car with solid mounts and rose joints etc, and with 600 ish hp and 1300kg it's pretty mental. It's road legal, but only just. Basically it's built for fun on track with the odd blast on a public road.  

 

Anyhow I have the engine almost built again, theirs time lucky,  and so am looking at turbos. The turbo i have is a gt35r with an aftermarket billet compressor fitted. It's ment to flow slightly more than a stock gt35r but not as much as a gtx3582r. I have a tial 0.82 housing on it at the moment but I also have a 1.03 housing also from tial I could use.  Before it melted down the car definately was responsive enough on the 0.82 housing, but did seem to run out of puff up top. The goal was a safe real 600 to 650 crank hp that I could use on track all day.  Unfortunately fuel in my locality tops out at 97 octane, so not even the 98 you guys can get.

 

So I'm now thinking the turbo may be a limiting factor in my safe 600 hp goal and the larger housing I have may help. I don't want excessive lag for no good reason though. To make the power I want on my engine I need a turbo that can flow 65 or even nearly 70lb min efficiently at 2 bar boost, or even slightly higher, and so I was considering a g35 900 in a 0.83. What would you experts feel about this turbo in my application? Also I think the v band setup should be the same as the tial setup I have?  I obviously understand a larger turbo means more lag, but is the g35 900 really more laggy than a gt35? Cheers des.

[Full-Race Geoff]

what is your max engine RPM?  and what is your max boost target, 2bar?

for a 2.5L engine at 500ft above sea level,  revving to 7000rpm or 8000rpm, you may want to play around with garrett boost advisor or bw matchbot.  this can help dial in your setup.  youtube videos at the bottom of the bw page.  

If you want to post up a link or a map with plotting points, it is much easier to understand what your operating parameters will be.  Unfortunately aftermarket "upgraded" compressor wheels are typically a mystery and do not have any compressor maps to work from