Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

The haltech controls it once its installed and a 2d or 3d duty cycle map controls its output, can be setup as open or closed loop.
I would recommend not installing it atm and wait until the haltech is installed with the mac valve installed at same time and then tuned. 

a potentiometer can installed wired to the ecu to control levels of boost via voltage. Another way is a 3d table with rpm vs tps or rpm vs ethanol or wheel speed vs rpm, even one of the mentioned with another overlay of the combinations.

End of the day the haltech needs to be installed with the mac valve to make use of it.

Edited by robbo_rb180
Added heaps of complicated information

Those boost controller units are for use with an ECU that can't do boost control, like standard or power FC. Haltech will look after that in your case, once it is in and tuned

  • 1 year later...
On 10/2/2022 at 8:19 PM, joshuaho96 said:

Didn't you post this question on Reddit already? If not here's my answer again:

https://www.gtrusablog.com/2013/02/rb26dett-vacuum-and-wastegate-diagram.html

image.thumb.png.d8add1784943822e07dc6ca950f479b0.png

Port 1 is the blue line. Port 2 is the green line. Port 3 is also the green line. The key point is that you will have to modify the vacuum line for port 3. Instead of tying port 2 and 3 together you cap the vacuum line on the combo coolant/vacuum pipe and the line on the plenum goes directly to the valve. Port 2 has unchanged routing.

image.thumb.png.53eed5193b324797ddc82e98b98fe2a8.png

As others have said don't do this until you get the new ECU installed and set up properly. Only do it once you're ready to set up boost control to reduce the number of variables.

Hey @joshuaho96 i got my car tuned last weekend, and we installed the 3 port mac. The tuner turned up the boost on the computer, but it wasn't actually boosting any higher... i'm re-reading your instructions and they are confusing. 

"Port 1 is the blue line. Port 2 is the green line. Port 3 is also the green line. The key point is that you will have to modify the vacuum line for port 3. Instead of tying port 2 and 3 together you cap the vacuum line on the combo coolant/vacuum pipe and the line on the plenum goes directly to the valve. Port 2 has unchanged routing."

What you said in quotation above, does not align with the diagram with the twin turbos.

According to the diagram, port 2 is the wastegate and would be the green line. 

 

56 minutes ago, kevboost7 said:

Hey @joshuaho96 i got my car tuned last weekend, and we installed the 3 port mac. The tuner turned up the boost on the computer, but it wasn't actually boosting any higher... i'm re-reading your instructions and they are confusing. 

"Port 1 is the blue line. Port 2 is the green line. Port 3 is also the green line. The key point is that you will have to modify the vacuum line for port 3. Instead of tying port 2 and 3 together you cap the vacuum line on the combo coolant/vacuum pipe and the line on the plenum goes directly to the valve. Port 2 has unchanged routing."

What you said in quotation above, does not align with the diagram with the twin turbos.

According to the diagram, port 2 is the wastegate and would be the green line. 

 

image.thumb.png.49601aa968d8fbc7b7a1467209810ccd.png

Not sure I can make it any clearer than this. Notice how one of the hoses has a restrictor from the factory. Either cut it out, work it out with lubricant, or make a new length of hose without it.

1 hour ago, joshuaho96 said:

image.thumb.png.49601aa968d8fbc7b7a1467209810ccd.png

Not sure I can make it any clearer than this. Notice how one of the hoses has a restrictor from the factory. Either cut it out, work it out with lubricant, or make a new length of hose without it.

are you in the states? i wish i could talk to you on the phone. Not sure if you're up for that. My number is 703-626-8787

Besides which, it is not important to know whether to hook port 1 up to the fuel tank, or the windscreen washer line. it is important to understand how the 3 port valve works. And then you can work out where to connect the ports all by yourself.

A 3 port solenoid valve has two states. Powered and non-powered.

In the at-rest, non-powered state, 2 of the ports are connected.

In the powered state, one of those ports is not connected to the 3rd port.

The one that is common to both those connections is called.....the common port. This one gets connected to the boost source.

The one that is connected to common when it is not powered gets connected to the wastegate actuator. This way, if the valve is doing nothing, you get wastegate spring base boost.

The one that is connected to common when powered is the vent. Vent to atmosphere or back to the post-AFM inlet as you see fit.

You can work out which connections occur when by just trying to blow through the ports powered and unpowered. Helpfully, the MAC valve also usually has a little diagram on the side that shows exactly how it works.

  • Like 1

What is confusing me is the green line going to the wastegates that is also connected to the plenum. Why can't i just replace the factory boost selonoid with a 3 port mac? Why do i have to cap off the factory dual vacuum/coolant pipe and use the line from the plenum?

1 hour ago, kevboost7 said:

Why can't i just replace the factory boost selonoid with a 3 port mac?

Because the factory boost solenoid doesn't work in the same manner that the 3 port valve does.

Riddle me this. How many ports does the factory solenoid have?

Riddle me also this. How is the factory solenoid used by the ECU? Is it just switched on and off, to provide a two state boost control system? Or is it pulse width modulated like a proper boost control system (ie, the sort that uses a 3 port solenoid)? Hot tip. It's not the second of those.

And so, you need to trash the factory plumbing and replace it with plumbing that will work according to the new system.

1 hour ago, kevboost7 said:

Why do i have to cap off the factory dual vacuum/coolant pipe and use the line from the plenum?

See above.

6 hours ago, kevboost7 said:

What is confusing me is the green line going to the wastegates that is also connected to the plenum. Why can't i just replace the factory boost selonoid with a 3 port mac? Why do i have to cap off the factory dual vacuum/coolant pipe and use the line from the plenum?

Factory solenoid is 2 ports only as others have said. To make a two port solenoid work you must tie the wastegate line to the plenum (boost source). That way when the solenoid isn't working the engine just makes wastegate boost. Then when the solenoid activates it vents to atmosphere (blue line). When you vent to atmosphere the problem with a 2 port solenoid is two-fold. First, it's a boost leak which is annoying. Second, you really want the pressure experienced by the wastegate to be as low as possible. With a 2 port solenoid the wastegate line will always see a pressure higher than atmospheric because the turbo's boost is bleeding both to atmosphere and into the wastegate line.

The 3 port splits the two states. Either you are sending boost pressure to the wastegate line (solenoid is off) or you are venting the wastegate line to atmosphere (solenoid is on).

Edited by joshuaho96
10 hours ago, joshuaho96 said:

Factory solenoid is 2 ports only as others have said. To make a two port solenoid work you must tie the wastegate line to the plenum (boost source). That way when the solenoid isn't working the engine just makes wastegate boost. Then when the solenoid activates it vents to atmosphere (blue line). When you vent to atmosphere the problem with a 2 port solenoid is two-fold. First, it's a boost leak which is annoying. Second, you really want the pressure experienced by the wastegate to be as low as possible. With a 2 port solenoid the wastegate line will always see a pressure higher than atmospheric because the turbo's boost is bleeding both to atmosphere and into the wastegate line.

The 3 port splits the two states. Either you are sending boost pressure to the wastegate line (solenoid is off) or you are venting the wastegate line to atmosphere (solenoid is on).

What happens if the factory solenoid is not activated and it is not tied to the plenum? Wont it just bleed the air back? And when you say blue line, isn't the blue line the turbo pressure?

Right now, this is how everything is connected in my car. According to the theory, everything should be working.. its just that other green line going to the plenum that is confusing me. 

image.thumb.png.3a661513e7e9f9bd45266e2edcbf8a4a.png

According to your explanation @joshuaho96 this is how it should be connected right? What i don't understand is that if i route all the lines like this... how is the plenum equal to the wastegate line? I thought port 2 on the MAC valve should be port the waste gate line?

I really appreciate you guys helping me look at these diagrams. 

image.thumb.png.63c80e90c9f5f7f911a7314fc043c95f.png

26 minutes ago, kevboost7 said:

According to your explanation @joshuaho96 this is how it should be connected right? What i don't understand is that if i route all the lines like this... how is the plenum equal to the wastegate line? I thought port 2 on the MAC valve should be port the waste gate line?

I really appreciate you guys helping me look at these diagrams. 

image.thumb.png.63c80e90c9f5f7f911a7314fc043c95f.png

The blue line is not boost. It is a vent to atmosphere.

The green line going to the plenum is the boost source.

My original diagram already shows what you need to cap. You only cap one pipe on the engine and then re-route the hose to go to the boost solenoid directly. The rest is unchanged. 

30 minutes ago, joshuaho96 said:

The blue line is not boost. It is a vent to atmosphere.

The green line going to the plenum is the boost source.

My original diagram already shows what you need to cap. You only cap one pipe on the engine and then re-route the hose to go to the boost solenoid directly. The rest is unchanged. 

@joshuaho96 I'm sorry josh , i dont know if i'm dumb or missing something here, but your original diagram makes no sense with my configuration. I have internal waste gates.

This is what you said: "Port 1 is the blue line. Port 2 is the green line. Port 3 is also the green line. The key point is that you will have to modify the vacuum line for port 3. Instead of tying port 2 and 3 together you cap the vacuum line on the combo coolant/vacuum pipe and the line on the plenum goes directly to the valve. Port 2 has unchanged routing." 

based on that description of what you said above^^ this is what the connections should look like below:

image.thumb.png.7614208d64f527c79428a86c95a8f687.png

is that what you are suggesting? Port 1 on the Mac valve (vent to atmosphere) should go back to the turbo pressure?

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • I know why it happened and I’m embarrassed to say but I was testing the polarity of one of the led bulb to see which side was positive with a 12v battery and that’s when it decided to fry hoping I didn’t damage anything else
    • I came here to note that is a zener diode too base on the info there. Based on that, I'd also be suspicious that replacing it, and it's likely to do the same. A lot of use cases will see it used as either voltage protection, or to create a cheap but relatively stable fixed voltage supply. That would mean it has seen more voltage than it should, and has gone into voltage melt down. If there is something else in the circuit dumping out higher than it should voltages, that needs to be found too. It's quite likely they're trying to use the Zener to limit the voltage that is hitting through to the transistor beside it, so what ever goes to the zener is likely a signal, and they're using the transistor in that circuit to amplify it. Especially as it seems they've also got a capacitor across the zener. Looks like there is meant to be something "noisy" to that zener, and what ever it was, had a melt down. Looking at that picture, it also looks like there's some solder joints that really need redoing, and it might be worth having the whole board properly inspected.  Unfortunately, without being able to stick a multimeter on it, and start tracing it all out, I'm pretty much at a loss now to help. I don't even believe I have a climate control board from an R33 around here to pull apart and see if any of the circuit appears similar to give some ideas.
    • Nah - but you won't find anything on dismantling the seats in any such thing anyway.
    • Could be. Could also be that they sit around broken more. To be fair, you almost never see one driving around. I see more R chassis GTRs than the Renault ones.
    • Yeah. Nah. This is why I said My bold for my double emphasis. We're not talking about cars tuned to the edge of det here. We're talking about normal cars. Flame propagation speed and the amount of energy required to ignite the fuel are not significant factors when running at 1500-4000 rpm, and medium to light loads, like nearly every car on the road (except twin cab utes which are driven at 6k and 100% load all the time). There is no shortage of ignition energy available in any petrol engine. If there was, we'd all be in deep shit. The calorific value, on a volume basis, is significantly different, between 98 and 91, and that turns up immediately in consumption numbers. You can see the signal easily if you control for the other variables well enough, and/or collect enough stats. As to not seeing any benefit - we had a couple of EF and EL Falcons in the company fleet back in the late 90s and early 2000s. The EEC IV ECU in those things was particularly good at adding in timing as soon as knock headroom improved, which typically came from putting in some 95 or 98. The responsiveness and power improved noticeably, and the fuel consumption dropped considerably, just from going to 95. Less delta from there to 98 - almost not noticeable, compared to the big differences seen between 91 and 95. Way back in the day, when supermarkets first started selling fuel from their own stations, I did thousands of km in FNQ in a small Toyota. I can't remember if it was a Starlet or an early Yaris. Anyway - the supermarket servos were bringing in cheap fuel from Indonesia, and the other servos were still using locally refined gear. The fuel consumption was typically at least 5%, often as much as 8% worse on the Indo shit, presumably because they had a lot more oxygenated component in the brew, and were probably barely meeting the octane spec. Around the same time or maybe a bit later (like 25 years ago), I could tell the difference between Shell 98 and BP 98, and typically preferred to only use Shell then because the Skyline ran so much better on it. Years later I found the realtionship between them had swapped, as a consequence of yet more refinery closures. So I've only used BP 98 since. Although, I must say that I could not fault the odd tank of United 98 that I've run. It's probably the same stuff. It is also very important to remember that these findings are often dependent on region. With most of the refineries in Oz now dead, there's less variability in local stuff, and he majority of our fuels are not even refined here any more anyway. It probably depends more on which SE Asian refinery is currently cheapest to operate.
×
×
  • Create New...