Neil's R33 Gts-t Build

[Neil]

Don’t be sorry for hijacking Rob, you know more about this stuff than I do. Unfortunately, I can’t find my old alignment info or ride heights, so I’m of no help.

Cheryl has been parked for over 4 years, with everything striped out of the front now and I mean everything and slowly going back together with much cleaning.

Just a quick rundown on her setup, which was not really that far off standard. I have Nismo arms front and rear, adjustable sway bars, Bilstein revalved shocks with 250 Eibach springs, hks upper pillow blocks, I need to replace at least the front springs as they are too soft, maybe even the rears. She was setup for targa stuff back in the day.

One thing that’s important is what you use the car for, Cheryl from here on in will be a 3 lap short dash girl, maybe the occasional hillclimb and nothing else, so my needs are very different to a circuit car.

The one biggy thing that I have noticed is tyre pressures, Most people run to higher pressure and that makes a massive difference, Both the Skyline and Radical responds much better with lower pressures, I would normally run the radical on 14 fronts and 12 rears, but these days I’m running 11.5 fronts and 10 in the rear, which in my head is to low but one of the quick tintops up here runs 22 and smashes everybody, it’s an FD Rx7 with an ls1.

[Neil]

Here's a pic of the welded on bov from my next door neibour, I'm very  happy with that.

Question, does anybody with their engine out that can post up a pic of the right hand rear chassis rail with all the factory stuff still in place, like the battery wiring, fuel pipes and the filter mounting location. I really should have taken some pics.

[GeeDog]

On 2/6/2023 at 10:50 PM, Neil said:

Question, does anybody with their engine out that can post up a pic of the right hand rear chassis rail

Ignore the chain, it's holding the gearbox up.

[Duncan]

SAU delivers!

[Neil]

18 hours ago, GeeDog said:

Ignore the chain, it's holding the gearbox up.

Thanks Geoff, you are a legend.

[MBS206]

What I find interesting, is that after all these years, Neil doesn't know by just picking up a part where exactly it goes ...

I think it's time we send him for some Dementia testing...

 

But a few questions... We were talking about light in your Garage thread... For more light in the engine bay, why don't you remove the bonnet? 
Even when working on the hoist, I've always found it easier to not need to bend myself (Or light) around the bonnet. Curious why you haven't removed it (From the pics on last page it was still on while on hoist)

 

Your fuel filter in your pic on the last page looks mounted in place, had you moved it earlier, or is it an optical illusion and it's not mounted there, it's just on a piece of fuel hose and the fuel filter is holding the bracket in place? (If it is mounted down there, I'm curious why you're wanting to move it back, and why you had moved it in the first place)

 

It dawned on me while looking at the recent car on hoist photos, you don't have the factory radiator support upright in place, instead it looks like a piece of RHS. 
Am I correct in assuming you ditched the factory one to save weight, and better air flow through the front?
If you did, why did you not just ditch the RHS as well that's in there? Do you have something mounted to it?
The only benefit I can see structurally is to stop the rad support for up/down movement, where as the factory one is a triangle shape which gives for some "side to side" strength too... But in all, that whole front apron is pretty darn strong for side to side and up and down typically.

 

The only other thing that pops into my head, those nice discs that I believe you stole from Mel's art's and craft supply all those years ago that you've bolted and (I believe silasticed in place) to cover where things like AC goes through the firewall by factory. Did you think about getting the panel beater to fill those holes in with metal to smooth it, and then paint it white to look more flush (Yes, looks on a race car! ha ha ha!) or are you more staying on the lines of "I'm happy with how they look and function, plus it means someone someday can re-fit the factory gear if they chose to" ?

[Neil]

Oh Matt, do you actually think I’ve lost my marbles, I’m working on it, but not just yet. The reason I asked for a pic is just so I can work out what goes where on reassembly and in what sequence, so I don’t for instance re-install all pas stuff and have to pull it back out to fit something else.

The Bonnet is now removed, well we took it off just before Christmas and is now in the trailer along with the guards and front bar. I’m thinking of pinning the back of the bonnet, so it’s removable easily all the time, so no hinges, just pins. Oh massive weight savings,but saving non the less.

Oh dear, I moved the fuel filter years ago, so I had more access to all the shit down that side of the engine and am now moving it again. I’m changing the type of filter to 2 x AN style filters which I use on the radical, the main one being 100 microns and the 2^nd one being 40 microns, all you have to do on a service is remove them, pull them apart, clean them and re-install. Awesome system, you can buy replacement o’rings, screens, it’s a win win and all from https://phenixindustries.com.au/

Again flicked the centre brace years ago and there was a number of reasons, 1^st was what happens in say an engine fire, someone has to release the bonnet pins, then release the bonnet cable and then someone has to go back and stick a hand in to release the factory bonnet lock including the safety catch. That brace is 26mm aluminium which also, if you look carefully has a thread insert that is the top mount for the intercooler, works a treat.

Those blanks are not Melinda’s arty stuff, they are carbon fibre inside and out using aluminum screws and nuts. I made the same for Duncan’s car and yes they are sealed. Just as a heads up, I will die before Cheryl is sold, Zoe can piss off, but not Cheryl.

[Neil]

Last post Feb 2023 WOW, didn't think it was that long ago. Things are progressing just at a much slower pace. One job I had to do is move the oil catch can/cans out of the engine bay, so I decided to move it into the boot, but my scrutineer buddy up here stated that I would need to isolate the boot area from the cabin which would be a pain in the arse. So I spoke to another buddy who used to make sports sedans and he came up with this idea, took me ages to make it all, but it looks like it will work a treat.

[The Bogan]

Is it possible to check what your crankcase pressure is?

I know with hydraulics that the longer the line, the more pressure you need to move the oil

Maybe due to the long single line, the crankcase pressure will rise because it is being bottle necked by the long line, maybe, maybe not, it may work great

My brain hurts now, time for a snooze 

[Neil]

2 hours ago, The Bogan said:

Is it possible to check what your crankcase pressure is?

I know with hydraulics that the longer the line, the more pressure you need to move the oil

Maybe due to the long single line, the crankcase pressure will rise because it is being bottle necked by the long line, maybe, maybe not, it may work great

My brain hurts now, time for a snooze 

I can't test it at the moment as I haven't started her yet, but my scientific test of blowing down the hose resulted in some resistance but nothing crazy. Hope it works as I busted my guts designing and making it. My buddy has built 3 cars using this method, sr20det, 13b turboed and a nascar V8 so he does know his stuff, time will tell.

[MBS206]

I think the problem you're likely to see, is oil separating while in the tube, and accumulating in it, and then you'll end up with an air lock effectively.

 

That is the main concern I feel will occur.

So may not happen immediately, and main tell will be motor appearing to be awesome as catch can has no / very very little oil accumulating in it.

[GTSBoy]

1 hour ago, MBS206 said:

I think the problem you're likely to see, is oil separating while in the tube, and accumulating in it, and then you'll end up with an air lock effectively.

 

That is the main concern I feel will occur.

So may not happen immediately, and main tell will be motor appearing to be awesome as catch can has no / very very little oil accumulating in it.

I guess the thing to look for would be for a considerable flow of crankcase gases out of the catch can. Something that you could probably only reasonably do on the dyno, and it might be a bit scary to try and see, with it located behind a rear tyre! But I'm sure someone could come up with a clever approach, from a GoPro or other camera, to streamers blowing in the breeze, or a calibrated whistle, or something. Anyway, normally a lot of gas flow is what we would consider to be undesirable, but in this case, a large enough gas flow would suggest that even if the long tube is the low point in the system there should be enough driving force to blow any oil all the way to the can.

The risk, should the motor be "super healthy" and not have much gas flow to the can, is that maybe the oil does collect and make a gas lock.

Hard to know how to judge what you might see though. I guess you could pre-fill the line with oil and see if it gets pushed into the can after being run up.

[The Bogan]

Spit balling

Could you connect a boost gauge to the oil cap somehow, disconnect the can line and take a reading, then reconnect the line and take another reading to see the crankcase pressure difference?

Agree it will need to be done when the engine is used in anger for sustained runs

Disclaimer: I tend to over think things nowadays 

[Duncan]

Has anyone ever seen a motorsport RB that had too little blowby

I'd be more worried about not knowing it if is breathing/overflowing oil but I guess that is a problem for the car behind, Dick Dastardly style

[The Bogan]

58 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Has anyone ever seen a motorsport RB that had too little blowby

I'd be more worried about not knowing it if is breathing/overflowing oil but I guess that is a problem for the car behind, Dick Dastardly style

I still have bad memories of going into turn 1 at Wakefield in my old R33 boat, going sideways, then backwards, then loopety looping it

The culprit was a catch can that puked oil out "everywhere"

Fun times......🙄

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Another question, is that hose even big enough? 

Not sure if that's a built motor, running big boost, but if so it's going to breathe heavily.

There's a reason you see many modern RBs with huge catch cans, returned back to the sump (heavy breathing and oil buildup in the head, etc.)

[The Bogan]

6 hours ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Another question, is that hose even big enough? 

Not sure if that's a built motor, running big boost, but if so it's going to breathe heavily.

There's a reason you see many modern RBs with huge catch cans, returned back to the sump (heavy breathing and oil buildup in the head, etc.)

This was/is my main concern, IIRC, I had some of that clear reinforced on mine, from the breathers to a 1" to the can, but as the can was in the engine bay it was only a short run from the breather to the can 

Maybe running 2 x 1" lines from the engine to the can, and 1 x 1.5" out, as a 1.5" cross sectional area of 1.5" is around twice that of 1"

From my understanding, which is heavily limited, if you restrict the breathing it can/will raise crank case pressure and blow seals and "stuff"

Maybe I'm wrong, but from remembering the amount of pressure coming out of the can in my sloppy old 25/30 build, large hoses were definitely needed to "keep the pressure down"

 

[dyl33]

There's a video on youtube where this guy tests the restriction caused by different filters in catch cans. For example Mishimoto style bronze filters increased the crank case pressure 5x from the baseline.

I reckon there might be problems with that setup oil pooling and blocking the line.

 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

2 hours ago, The Bogan said:

you restrict the breathing it can/will raise crank case pressure and blow seals and "stuff"

100% 

Hence with these shit box RB motors, you need to vent the crank case by venting the sump into a catch can and also draining back to it.

I've done just that, and have not had any oiling issues on the track since.

[joshuaho96]

7 hours ago, dyl33 said:

There's a video on youtube where this guy tests the restriction caused by different filters in catch cans. For example Mishimoto style bronze filters increased the crank case pressure 5x from the baseline.

I reckon there might be problems with that setup oil pooling and blocking the line.

 

PCV seems a lot more complicated than most give it credit for. It seems like you want to have all of that flow to pull crankcase vacuum when possible, but the moment you achieve a target crankcase vacuum you actually want to close all crankcase ventilation flow to give crankcase filters a chance to work and for all the oil to stop clogging up crankcase breathers. Hopefully by the time the crankcase gets back to atmospheric things the oil isn't sloshing straight up into the ports of the block breathers so there's less oil spitting out of the breathers.