Borg Warner EFR Series Turbo's V 2.0

[Mick_o]

24 minutes ago, gzro said:

Great. I hv the same! What clutch are you using at the moment?

My main sport is hill drives. I am currently running a pair of gtss and looking at upgrading to efr9180.  it is a 1.05... one of my mate has a stock engine with efr8374. it has a 0.92 without the actuator. Tuned to 1.2bar and the car is great.

My current engine has poncam b, tomei rods and cp pistons (9:1).  the engine runs great so i am very reluctant to rebuild it.  As i am into hill drive, my main concern is response from the 9180. 

Do you of a dyno overlay to share? And maybe a vid of how the car goes?

 

If you are after a hill climb car a 9180 wouldn't be a great choice in my opinion. Sure its gunna make gobs more stick but itd make it bit of a handful and hard to punt through the tight stuff! An 8374 1.05 is where its at i reckon. More than enough grunt to satisfy any mortal man but still responsive enough to be a blast through the hills. 

[gzro]

31 minutes ago, Mick_o said:

If you are after a hill climb car a 9180 wouldn't be a great choice in my opinion. Sure its gunna make gobs more stick but itd make it bit of a handful and hard to punt through the tight stuff! An 8374 1.05 is where its at i reckon. More than enough grunt to satisfy any mortal man but still responsive enough to be a blast through the hills. 

The current gtss is easy on tight corners n windy roads but a bit boring when we hit the long stretches (down hill).

Another mate has a 2.8l with gtrs n find the exact opposite of mine.. fast on long straights.

On hill climbs, i try to maintain 3.5k and above most of the times on the gtss.  O the gtrs, my mate needs to maintain 3.5k to 4k. If the 9180 requires more than 4k to be in the power range then it will not be a fun car for hill climb.

[Lithium]

Do you have stock displacement, @gzro?  If so, then you'll be needing near 5000rpm to keep on steam with a 9180... it is a big turbo for a 2.6.  Even on a 2.8 you'd want to be keeping over 4000rpm, the EFR8374 is the max I'd personally go with unless you've got more displacement or a good head.

[usmair]

1 hour ago, gzro said:

Great. I hv the same! What clutch are you using at the moment?

My main sport is hill drives. I am currently running a pair of gtss and looking at upgrading to efr9180.  it is a 1.05... one of my mate has a stock engine with efr8374. it has a 0.92 without the actuator. Tuned to 1.2bar and the car is great.

My current engine has poncam b, tomei rods and cp pistons (9:1).  the engine runs great so i am very reluctant to rebuild it.  As i am into hill drive, my main concern is response from the 9180. 

Do you of a dyno overlay to share? And maybe a vid of how the car goes?

 

OS Giken Racing Triple Plate.

For hill drive, I'd recommend the 8374. 9180 on 2.6L probably too big.

Dyno comparison is on the way...

[gzro]

2 hours ago, Lithium said:

Do you have stock displacement, @gzro?  If so, then you'll be needing near 5000rpm to keep on steam with a 9180... it is a big turbo for a 2.6.  Even on a 2.8 you'd want to be keeping over 4000rpm, the EFR8374 is the max I'd personally go with unless you've got more displacement or a good head.

Stock displacement at the moment.... 5000rpm is like driving a honda for hill climb...nothing against honda tho...  just not too comfortable with having to maintain a rev that high through out the drive..

I have a spare head, a ported n polished head off a race engine frm japan. I have no idea if it is a good port job.  Will be using this head after i change the valve guides.

Also have the Greddy intake which may just introduce more lag to the setup...

For exhaust manifold,  i have the non-wastegate fullrace that i bought for an earlier turbo that i have now sold. Will have to get wastegate flange welded onto the manifold.  The earlier turbo was an efr8374 0.92ar - my life is full of crappy decisions......

2 hours ago, usmair said:

OS Giken Racing Triple Plate.

For hill drive, I'd recommend the 8374. 9180 on 2.6L probably too big.

Dyno comparison is on the way...

How does the OS triple plates drive?

I have the exedy triple carbon (hyper-r series i think) that i am planning to use with the 9180.  Currently on ORC twin carbon, which is very easy to drive with no On/Off bite. However i have read and been told by numerous people that On/Off bite is inevitable with triple plates.

[Piggaz]

Another vote for the 8374/1.05 especially on a smaller 2.6L.

The OSG triple is a pleasure to drive. The pickup point is lowish, not grabby/bitey. Having had a Nismo coppermix for just on 10 years, I was quite hesitant about going to the OSG triple. Totally unnecessary. 

* Apprantly they did some changes at some point. Not sure when the change over was but it would have been before July 2015.

[Nismo 3.2ish]

21 minutes ago, gzro said:

Stock displacement at the moment.... 5000rpm is like driving a honda for hill climb...nothing against honda tho...  just not too comfortable with having to maintain a rev that high through out the drive..

I have a spare head, a ported n polished head off a race engine frm japan. I have no idea if it is a good port job.  Will be using this head after i change the valve guides.

Also have the Greddy intake which may just introduce more lag to the setup...

For exhaust manifold,  i have the non-wastegate fullrace that i bought for an earlier turbo that i have now sold. Will have to get wastegate flange welded onto the manifold.  The earlier turbo was an efr8374 0.92ar - my life is full of crappy decisions......

How does the OS triple plates drive?

I have the exedy triple carbon (hyper-r series i think) that i am planning to use with the 9180.  Currently on ORC twin carbon, which is very easy to drive with no On/Off bite. However i have read and been told by numerous people that On/Off bite is inevitable with triple plates.

Had the Coppermix twin plate for a few years, great to drive, engages up top , good for my short legs, lol

Now have the ATS Carbon triple plate, engages early but as easy to drive as the Coppermix twin  , not an  OFF/ON clutch , easy and smooth and handles my torque easily. 

2 very good cluthes

[burn4005]

I think you're going to have trouble with the excedy carbon triple on a 9180.  according to here:

https://shop.exedyusa.com/exedy-racing-clutch/exedy-racing-hyper-carbon-series/g-50059.aspx

its only rated to 568 ft lb. (770Nm)

the ORC1000F triple is rated to 980NM

the coppermix competition twin is rated to 950NM

and the OS Giken R3C is rated to 1050ft lb (1400NM)

Edited February 20, 2018 by burn4005

[Griffin]

Any feedback on the 9174 yet? 

[Mick_o]

1 hour ago, burn4005 said:

I think you're going to have trouble with the excedy carbon triple on a 9180.  according to here:

https://shop.exedyusa.com/exedy-racing-clutch/exedy-racing-hyper-carbon-series/g-50059.aspx

its only rated to 568 ft lb. (770Nm)

the ORC1000F triple is rated to 980NM

the coppermix competition twin is rated to 950NM

and the OS Giken R3C is rated to 1050ft lb (1400NM)

Know you'r only quoting claimed figures but a nismo coppermix won't cop 950nm. 2 people i know have killed them with around 750nm. 

[Timmaz300]

I am interested as well in seeing some 9174 data. I have a 9174 with a .92 iwg on a stock bottom end. Full Race said it should be within 80-100 rpm more than a 8374, with the power of a 9180. I should be ready to start tuning it in early April. Still need a few more parts and some time to work on it. 

[Piggaz]

^^^

Are you measuring exhaust manifold pressure? 

If it made the power of a 9180, does that make the 9180 redundant? 

 

[Timmaz300]

At the moment I am not measuring back pressure in the manifold. The 9174 is supposed to spool a couple hundred rmp faster than the 9180, and has a higher rpm limit. I haven't fired it up yet. I got the .92 internally gated housing to keep it simple. I have the turbosmart dual port wastegate on it. I am hoping to keep spool to a minimum. If spool is good, but is not making power, I'll swap to a 1.05 and have external gates added to my manifold. If it doesn't spool like I want it to, I'll step down to an 8374. I figured I'd try a combo different from everyone else. I have a friend that just tuned his 8374 1.05 AR at 605 rwhp at 27 psi on pump gas. So I am hoping my 9174 will do at least that on pump. 

 

 

 

[burn4005]

11 hours ago, Mick_o said:

Know you'r only quoting claimed figures but a nismo coppermix won't cop 950nm. 2 people i know have killed them with around 750nm. 

Is that measured flywheel torque or derived torque from a dyno reported power at the wheels?

because that would put it right around 950ish factoring 20-25% drivetrain loss

[gzro]

17 hours ago, burn4005 said:

I think you're going to have trouble with the excedy carbon triple on a 9180.  according to here:

https://shop.exedyusa.com/exedy-racing-clutch/exedy-racing-hyper-carbon-series/g-50059.aspx

its only rated to 568 ft lb. (770Nm)

the ORC1000F triple is rated to 980NM

the coppermix competition twin is rated to 950NM

and the OS Giken R3C is rated to 1050ft lb (1400NM)

Thanks....just realized....  the clutch was meant for the earlier turbo as well...

 

18 hours ago, Nismo 3.2ish said:

Had the Coppermix twin plate for a few years, great to drive, engages up top , good for my short legs, lol

Now have the ATS Carbon triple plate, engages early but as easy to drive as the Coppermix twin  , not an  OFF/ON clutch , easy and smooth and handles my torque easily. 

2 very good cluthes

What hp and torque were you running with the ATS triple carbon?

19 hours ago, Piggaz said:

Another vote for the 8374/1.05 especially on a smaller 2.6L.

The OSG triple is a pleasure to drive. The pickup point is lowish, not grabby/bitey. Having had a Nismo coppermix for just on 10 years, I was quite hesitant about going to the OSG triple. Totally unnecessary. 

* Apprantly they did some changes at some point. Not sure when the change over was but it would have been before July 2015.

Interested too see if the nismo can still hold up with your latest upgrade.   then i can decide which clutch to go for.

[Piggaz]

@gzro The coppermix has gone. The OSG R3C replaced it.

[burn4005]

has anyone used one of the ORC 1000F clutches? looks like a good pull type plug and play. solid centre like the OSG R3C though.

[Nismo 3.2ish]

4 hours ago, gzro said:

What hp and torque were you running with the ATS triple carbon?

It is 600awhp @ 6000rpm and 761 Derived Nm @ 4000rpm , my setup runs out of puff pretty quickly but a good street ride:)

 

 

[gzro]

On 20/02/2018 at 10:22 AM, Lithium said:

Do you have stock displacement, @gzro?  If so, then you'll be needing near 5000rpm to keep on steam with a 9180... it is a big turbo for a 2.6.  Even on a 2.8 you'd want to be keeping over 4000rpm, the EFR8374 is the max I'd personally go with unless you've got more displacement or a good head.

Would a 0.92 ar work on stock displacement? Plus vcam?

Really reluctant to build a 2.8l engine when the current engine is still healthy,  current engine is <15k after rebuilt..

[acsplit]

Why not just go the 8374 1.05 Ext?

Do you want a quick car in the twisties or a dyno number to brag about?