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Borg Warner EFR Series Turbo's V 2.0

Piggaz

By Piggaz,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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HarrisRacing
HarrisRacing

Note to all. Finally moved my cam gears on the dyno. Spent 4 hours there yesterday (on a dynocomm inertial - which will soon be eddy brake). I now see what a V-cam would do for you. Moving my Pon

minesskyline
minesskyline

Here's some updated pics

Deano 1
Deano 1

?

Posted Images

Mick_o Grand Master

Mick_o

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

At least I drive mine, unlike your hoist queen.

How do you know how much I drive my car? 

In fact I bet its been driven more than yours between engine breaks and builds. 

 

Dose Pipe Sutututu Grand Master

Dose Pipe Sutututu

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Mick_o said:

How do you know how much I drive my car? 

In fact I bet its been driven more than yours between engine breaks and builds. 

 

and 0 times on the track.

At least I gave it a go, thrash the shit out of it at a few events and killed it. Now it's going to a proper shop to be built.

Anyhow, ignore list you go.

BakemonoRicer Grand Master

BakemonoRicer

Posted
Posted

Dose, a proper shop? Before you claimed your engine was NASA spec and led everyone to believe you reinvented the wheel, when in reality you blew the motor due to your bicentric throttle control and the lead weight you have for a foot. Limiter bashing is for Honda drivers m8... it’d make more sense if you put a B18C in given the 100kw might just cope with your driving style 

 

Lithium Grand Master

Lithium

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

Nah, just unlock the original and merge threads.

This!  I was gutted when the trolling started in my original thread which ended up with it being locked, now there is near 12 years of quantity over quality to browse on the topic - I'd take an obscene bit of pride in starting the longest running technical handbag fight on the interwebs!

Edited by Lithium
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BakemonoRicer Grand Master

BakemonoRicer

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, Lithium said:

This!  I was gutted when the trolling started in my original thread which ended up with it being locked, now there is near 12 years of quantity over quality to browse on the topic - I'd take an obscene bit of pride in starting the longest running technical handbag fight on the interwebs!

Lithium, the only people that seem to bicker & moan are the people that "DON'T" run EFR turbos.

The blockheads that have never used an EFR are the ones that have busted a sewer main in this thread. They just can't seem to stick within their oil spewing Precisions & big bubba Garretts threads 

Lithium Grand Master

Lithium

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, BakemonoRicer said:

Lithium, the only people that seem to bicker & moan are the people that "DON'T" run EFR turbos.

The blockheads that have never used an EFR are the ones that have busted a sewer main in this thread. They just can't seem to stick within their oil spewing Precisions & big bubba Garretts threads 

I don't fully agree, sadly.  And given I'm the one that started going on about these turbos ~12 years ago its hardly that I'm biased haha.  There has been some pretty good conversation for, against and about from one side or another and it is still fairly frustrating that the conversation has been going for 12 years and there is still pretty f**k all data on them.   I don't blame people for having doubts.

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Deano 1 Mentor

Deano 1

Posted
Posted

anyone know what angle the turbo can sit at? the max angle im trying to aim the ass end down as much as possible on my wrx build. 

 

But its pretty steep and I don't want it smoking. I know the garrets are only good for 15 deg, does anyone know what the EFR is?

GTSBoy Grand Master

GTSBoy

Posted
Posted

I think the only available guidance is from gut feel.

If the bearings were hydrodynamic bushes, I would suggest that there would be only a very small angle that could be tolerated. Hydrodynamic bearings offer no axial location at all and would allow the weight of the rotating assembly to float downhill and the thrust bearings would be carrying that load all the time. That would likely be counter to the design intent of the thrusts.

If the bearings were ball bearings (and EFRs are, right?), then things are probably a bit different. A ball bearing will offer some axial load carrying capability when placed on an axial angle. The rolling elements will work up against the side of the race. The manufacturers of all such bearings do provide some information on what's acceptable in that regard. So whilst BW might not have said anything, it might be possible to infer what the limits are from inspection of typical similar rolling element bearing datasheets.

Even without finding real values, the gut feel engineer in me says that you probably wouldn't want to be running higher angles than around 15°. That seems to be enough to me to make the rolling elements displace away from the centreline of the race. That gut feel may be just too damned conservative. For all I know they could be fine working at 30+°.

This SKF chart shows that single row roller balls can work at light axial loads up to angles a bit higher than 30°. After that you need to use more special bearings or arrangements. I don't think that paired (ie, two separate single race ball bearings) would change that except that obviously every extra bearing you add reduces the axial load carried by each bearing.

image.thumb.png.58438473073103a4dd0617079714d85f.png

 

So, my non-scienticious gut feel is to stay below 30°, and well below if possible.

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