Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Lithium said:

Interesting - I would have expected more than that!    Still, must be pretty solid even with that?

That doesn't sound great :/

Yea, I'm not sure about the oil/wastegate, but it only seems to be a very small amount and only when I'm really hard on it. And 750awhp is pretty nuts already. If there is more, I am pretty happy with where it is now. It just pulls and pulls all the way to 9k rpm. I've already gone through a back set of tires from spinning 3rd and some of 4th.

On 9/2/2017 at 11:40 AM, minesskyline said:

After speaking with the tuner further, I believe that 750 was all he could get out of the setup. If they can do more, I don't know what other changes could be made to extract more power.

im interested to see the chart, and whatever info you can share of the tune/setup.  how much boost, ignition advance and WGDC? Do you have turbo speed sensors?  Do you have a boost chart showing RPM vs boost and where are you reaching 1bar boost?  obviously there are many changes that can be made to extract more power, but thoroughly understanding the baseline is important before changing anything else

On 9/2/2017 at 11:42 AM, minesskyline said:

@Full-Race Geoff Do you know why the wastegates would allow small amounts of oil to be blown out from them? I have the turbosmart wastegates from your site.

All wastegates internal or external will have a small leak from the lower port.  In the case of turbosmart IWG actuators, if you use a 4 port solenoid with pressure in the lower canister it can push assembly lube out of the lower bushing. Turbosmart is fantastic to deal with, if you have any concerns send them a photo of the actuator. 

On 9/2/2017 at 7:22 AM, Piggaz said:

@Full-Race Geoff

Have you seen a 8373/1.45 result at all?

Any news on the 8474?

yes 8374 1.45 was a popular evoX turbo, but 9174 1.45 has pretty well displaced it

8474 and 9280 both required a new compressor housing design.  This will not be released until 2018

1 hour ago, Full-Race Geoff said:

im interested to see the chart, and whatever info you can share of the tune/setup.  how much boost, ignition advance and WGDC? Do you have turbo speed sensors?  Do you have a boost chart showing RPM vs boost and where are you reaching 1bar boost?  obviously there are many changes that can be made to extract more power, but thoroughly understanding the baseline is important before changing anything else

All wastegates internal or external will have a small leak from the lower port.  In the case of turbosmart IWG actuators, if you use a 4 port solenoid with pressure in the lower canister it can push assembly lube out of the lower bushing. Turbosmart is fantastic to deal with, if you have any concerns send them a photo of the actuator. 

yes 8374 1.45 was a popular evoX turbo, but 9174 1.45 has pretty well displaced it

8474 and 9280 both required a new compressor housing design.  This will not be released until 2018

Here's the 91 pump gas and e85 dyno plot overlay. Let me know what other information you need that's not represented here. I will get whatever you need. Also, I'm running a megasquirt standalone so I might be able to get the tune as a whole. This is not to say that the tuner did not do a good job, because I believe they did a fantastic job with this build.

20170903_195944.jpg

Edited by minesskyline
Added more info.
9 hours ago, minesskyline said:

Here's the 91 pump gas and e85 dyno plot overlay. Let me know what other information you need that's not represented here. I will get whatever you need. Also, I'm running a megasquirt standalone so I might be able to get the tune as a whole. This is not to say that the tuner did not do a good job, because I believe they did a fantastic job with this build.

20170903_195944.jpg

now hit the track and tell us the mph you run :)

  • Like 1
11 hours ago, minesskyline said:

Here's the 91 pump gas and e85 dyno plot overlay. Let me know what other information you need that's not represented here. I will get whatever you need. Also, I'm running a megasquirt standalone so I might be able to get the tune as a whole. This is not to say that the tuner did not do a good job, because I believe they did a fantastic job with this build.

20170903_195944.jpg

Can't really read from the graph (sorry blurry and at an angle), but what power did it make on pumpgas (looks like 620?) and what boost level to achieve that? Same question for E85. Dang...mustang dyno those are STRONG numbers!

1 hour ago, HarrisRacing said:

Can't really read from the graph (sorry blurry and at an angle), but what power did it make on pumpgas (looks like 620?) and what boost level to achieve that? Same question for E85. Dang...mustang dyno those are STRONG numbers!

Sorry, I will take a better picture. 641 on pump at 26psi. 758 at 32psi on e85. The car is really fast. I've been in 9 second cars before and I am more than confident that this is one. I will try to get setup for the track this year to find out officially. 

6 hours ago, minesskyline said:

Sorry, I will take a better picture. 641 on pump at 26psi. 758 at 32psi on e85. The car is really fast. I've been in 9 second cars before and I am more than confident that this is one. I will try to get setup for the track this year to find out officially. 

Oh that's interesting - that sounds a LOT more positive than I expected, what size cams and what headwork do you have again?  Normally 758whp on a US dyno doesn't necessarily represent THAT fast a car.  

 

Oh that's interesting - that sounds a LOT more positive than I expected, what size cams and what headwork do you have again?  Normally 758whp on a US dyno doesn't necessarily represent THAT fast a car.  
 

Aren't Mustang dynos meant to read low or realistic by Oz standards?
16 minutes ago, admS15 said:


Aren't Mustang dynos meant to read low or realistic by Oz standards?

I am not sure they are totally consistent, my general feeling is the order of "generous" to "heartbreaker" for your average example of each would be Dynapack=Dynojet, Mainline=Mustang, DynoPower (Popular NZ dyno), then Dyno Dynamics... but then there seem to be more generous and also harsher examples of all of those which throw the rules, rules of thumb for dyno comparisons can't ever be taken as gospel from my observations so far.

Sound Performance use a Mustang dyno and they made ~770whp (over 550wkw) out of a 1.05a/r EFR8374 on kill with a hot 2JZ - if that was an absolute then comparing that with this result basically kills the "twins are better" argument for EFRs, which to be fair is a tricky one as there has not yet been transparent public result for twins which have justified their use over a single EFR that I've seen beyond where the twin kit covers what no single EFR can do (ie, twin EFR7163s flow MUCH more than any single EFR).

 

Edited by Lithium
  • Like 1
3 hours ago, Lithium said:

Oh that's interesting - that sounds a LOT more positive than I expected, what size cams and what headwork do you have again?  Normally 758whp on a US dyno doesn't necessarily represent THAT fast a car.  

 

Port and polish, bronze valve guides, retainers and valves (I don't remember the brand off the top if my head). Cams are Poncam B's.

btw i now have a 34 getrag with a triple plate clutch sitting on 275 Mickey Thompson radials

im going to try and hit wsid in september, shove 31psi down its throat and better my 134mph

Edited by usmair
  • Like 2
3 hours ago, usmair said:

btw i now have a 34 getrag with a triple plate clutch sitting on 275 Mickey Thompson radials

im going to try and hit wsid in september, shove 31psi down its throat and better my 134mph

Currently changing from Haltech platinum to EMU Black. Also resetting my out of spec shims (been this way forever), and going to water/meth injection. 20 psi is 126.7 mph now. I can't imagine 27-31!

Good way to find out whether the overspin problem is instant death or not. Garrett rate their wheels to near-similar maximum RPM too and people don't really seem to care much about spinning them way past it

Please post results :P

4 minutes ago, Kinkstaah said:

Good way to find out whether the overspin problem is instant death or not. Garrett rate their wheels to near-similar maximum RPM too and people don't really seem to care much about spinning them way past it

This is kind of a good point which I've been meaning to ask @Full-Race Geoff...  or anyone who has found anything, I've never seen any official Borg Warner documentation on the maximum recommended turbine speed for any of their EFR range - same goes the Garrett range?!

They both have the rpm lines on compressor maps, but there is nothing stated to indicate that any of those imply a maximum rpm - which from all I can tell is treated like a single magic number.  Is there any information available we can refer to?  There has been much noise made about how risky it is to go past the max rpm of any of these turbochargers but without that max rpm I feel awkward sometimes bringing it up without any supplied information.  One of the justifications given for the EFR9174 existing is that it allows for more rpm safely, which implies that the compressor wants to spin faster than the turbine can happily spin at - but that is a number which we are not given... obviously going off the compressor map will result in rpm skyrocketing to try and move any more air as compressor efficiency plummets but surely the intention of the 9174 isn't to encourage running the compressor into uncharted territory?

Clarification would be awesome :)

 

4 hours ago, Lithium said:

This is kind of a good point which I've been meaning to ask @Full-Race Geoff...  or anyone who has found anything, I've never seen any official Borg Warner documentation on the maximum recommended turbine speed for any of their EFR range - same goes the Garrett range?!

They both have the rpm lines on compressor maps, but there is nothing stated to indicate that any of those imply a maximum rpm - which from all I can tell is treated like a single magic number.  Is there any information available we can refer to?  There has been much noise made about how risky it is to go past the max rpm of any of these turbochargers but without that max rpm I feel awkward sometimes bringing it up without any supplied information.  One of the justifications given for the EFR9174 existing is that it allows for more rpm safely, which implies that the compressor wants to spin faster than the turbine can happily spin at - but that is a number which we are not given... obviously going off the compressor map will result in rpm skyrocketing to try and move any more air as compressor efficiency plummets but surely the intention of the 9174 isn't to encourage running the compressor into uncharted territory?

Clarification would be awesome :)

 

I've got the EFR speed sensor on my S15 (SR20DET). Hits 29psi and tapers to ~23psi. This peaks up at ~140,000rpm (can't remember exact figure). Max turbine speed for each EFR turbo is well documented, pretty sure it's in the manual. My 7163 is 'rated' to 150,600 rpm. Full-Race website lists that the EFR 9174 turbine RPM 'max' is 125,000rpm.

 

I bought the sensor so I could push the turbo to it's top end limit on my engine and still feel a little 'safe' in that it was still within manufacturers specs.

9 minutes ago, MaximuSmurf said:

I've got the EFR speed sensor on my S15 (SR20DET). Hits 29psi and tapers to ~23psi. This peaks up at ~140,000rpm (can't remember exact figure). Max turbine speed for each EFR turbo is well documented, pretty sure it's in the manual. My 7163 is 'rated' to 150,600 rpm. Full-Race website lists that the EFR 9174 turbine RPM 'max' is 125,000rpm.

 

Awesome, obviously I am missing something then - I've tried looking and so far can't find it, can you please point me at somewhere which either 

a) Specifies specifically that the turbine speed should not exceed 150,600rpm (which is coincidentally the last rpm line on the compressor map, which doesn't have to mean that it's at all linked to max turbine wheel speed

b) Clarifies that the compressor map is constructed to sit within the confines of the maximum speed you should spin the turbine to.

?

I research these things quite thoroughly and I've not seen anything beyond the Full-Race website's "125,000rpm" limit mentioned - that is the only time I've seen a limit mentioned, and it doesn't refer to any Borg Warner official specs I've seen, and I've certainly not seen that in any of the Borg Warner spec sheets I've looked at.  If you are investing heaps of money and intend on pushing hard it really would be nice to have some more clearly communicated specs on this.

I'm not saying that they aren't there, but I have no found anything which I consider clear and exact so admit that I may have missed it but I'm certainly not the only one who hasn't seen it specifically outlined for the whole range and would benefit from that being clarified, so pointing it out would be very appreciated!

Edited by Lithium

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Clutch is a spec brand, new clutch system,( PP, flywheel, friction disc, etc. pull type) installed 100 miles ago, with no problems.
    • looking for some help and maybe some insight on others experience with a new LSD. R34 GT ran and drove beautifully, but always alot of grip loss due to the open R200 rear end, so I just installed a new 1.5 LSD way into the stock open R200 for a ER34. Simple. Everything seemed right. I test drove for the first time this weekend. as I started to back out the garage the first time slowly with tires straight it sounded and felt like I had a loose or half disconnected drive shaft...that was clucking around loose and shaking entire vehicle, and making it feel like the trans clutch was spontaneously slipping then grabbing very roughly while just letting out pedal slowly. I backed it out went to pull forward with the same noise, shake and slip grab feeling with hesitation, I turned the tires to back out more and then pulled ahead some same thing but worst because of added wheel resistance (which that I expected) puzzled … pulling it back in checking everything over and finding nothing wrong, I tried it the next day. same thing, couldn’t believe how it shook everything again making a terrible noise and making it feel like the trans clutch was slipping and grabbing, but I got it out of garage into the driveway, got it straight, drove forward and then reveres a few times in a straight line everything shaking , causing what felt like clutch slip and grab every time, sounded like right behind front driver tire and I could feel it in the floor board with my feet,... worst right when beginning to let clutch pedal out to engage slightly, shuttering and sounding terrible along the way…I managed to slowly get down the road, babying it the whole way, once I was rolling (out of 1st) seemed to be better and between shifts, then clutch felt closer to normal…not slip/ grab etc., but back down to any stop, straight road or turning, same thing. Made no difference if all tires were straight or if I was turning. All other gauge read out correct. with in 2 miles as planned I reached the empty parking lot and performed the break in procedure that came with lsd, essentially to drive in a figure 8 a bunch.  Did this, binding chattering, and shaking the car the whole way. I drove it back home seemed somewhat normal once I was in straight line and past 10 mph or so, and I know it will “bind” on corners and cause some tires squeal when turning especially from a stop, but when I begin to move it still causes what feels like the trans clutch to slip and jerk badly as well as shaking the entire car, and sounds terrible, that I didn’t expect. I used the fluid they supplied with LSD kit and did the breaking, planning to change fluid as they suggest after breaking, but wondering will it get smoother or less aggressive with use? maybe a 1.5 is just too aggressive for normal road driving?   I have a LSD that I put in my 71 cuda when I restored it, with amazing smooth , quite yet effective results. Different style LSD but that ones a joy to drive. maybe expecting too much from this R200?
    • Join SAU NSW for a flame-grilled feed & flame-spitting cruise! Sunday 17th August 2025 3:30PM Meeting Archies Flame Grille Sylvania Waters 4:45PM Cruise Departure 5:15PM Arrival at Cape Solander Kurnell Meet Location: Archies Flame Grille Final Destination: Cape Solander Kurnell *Disclaimer* There will be a lead and follow car so no one should get lost. If you would like to attend or bring others along please put your name down and a +1 as numbers will be needed prior! This is NOT a race and we will all be adhering to all road rules. If this is what you want please come to one of our many track days. This is an official SAU:NSW event and will be run under a CAMS permit. One of the things that really sets our club apart is our commitment to being true enthusiasts. When on normal roads we strive to maintain good relations with the authorities as well as the public in general. When attending one of Skylines Australia NSW events please try to: • Be aware of surrounding environment and act accordingly. • Drive courteously on the state’s roads as a true enthusiast should. • Understand how important it is to maintain the good name of SAU NSW and thus, treat others accordingly. • Any misbehavior will not be tolerated and you will be asked to leave.
    • Yeah good luck out there! Will be good to see a mighty GTST going harder than the GTRs
    • i will be there 😁
×
×
  • Create New...