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Baroque

Need help with choosing a clutch for R34 RB26

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Hi guys.I want you,as being a long time members of this community and experienced owners of that Skyline stuff, to tell me what you recommend for aftermarket single plate clutch which is soft/light/smooth/comfortable for private/street use for R34 RB26DETT which is currently available to buy.Thanks in advance for replies.

Edited by Baroque

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Does it have to be a single plate?

The Nismo Super Coppermix twin plate is very light and easy in traffic.

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On 10/20/2019 at 9:36 AM, Robzilla32 said:

Does it have to be a single plate?

The Nismo Super Coppermix twin plate is very light and easy in traffic.

This.

i wouldn’t bother putting anything else in unless you are planning to make big power.

feels pretty much like a stock clutch but so much better

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3 hours ago, Baroque said:

Thanks mate,but only single plate is considered.

why ?

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Nismo twin plate doesn’t rattle, so you wont know it is there.  I have the competition version which is a bit grabby with the copper in it but the lower torque version should be better in that regard.

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BK asked why- My power and my driving style is not on a "FU Gearbox" level,its simple and good enough,so i dont need twin,but yeah,exactly like djr81 said, i won't put anything that rattle because i want to keep this car mild and clean. So , it means from what You djr81 said and robzilla too , Nismo Super Coopermix for me is fine ? I Read on a rhd japan few minutes ago : -

Because of the design and manufacturing processes made to create the improved clutch response provided by the sports clutch disc and lightweight flywheel and increased output, it is possible that the transmission or bearings may transmit a rumbling noise, compared to genuine Nissan parts. Transmission or gear noise is particularly likely to occur at idling or when accelerating or decelerating from the area around 2000rpm; however, this has no effect on quality or performance.
- The rattling sound which is characteristic of six-speed manual transmissions, Getrag-equipped vehicles and S15 6-speed manual transmission vehicles, has been proven in actual vehicle testing to be reduced through the use of the G-max.
- Do not use with a big operating cylinder, which may result in a misshift due to insufficient stroke volume.

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The problem with the Getrag V160 is that it needs a dual mass flywheel. If you don't use one it will be noisy as mentioned in the description. I don't believe the Super Coppermix Twin can use anything other than a lightweight flywheel. If you want to use the OEM flywheel try contacting ATS to see if they have anything. Depending on your power goals you can get a very light, streetable clutch that won't be noisy. It does cost a bit more than the Nismo clutch though if you want a carbon clutch disc.

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Ok let's clear things up. I said "why" originally as I see no reason ever to run a single plate ever in a GTR, as their cost vs what they deliver is not very good compared to multiplate clutches.

What power level are we talking here ? Just because you run a multiplayer doesn't mean you have to have a "FU gearbox" driving style, it just means it can support more power. Some multiplates are nicer to drive than others for sure. Yes the Nismo twin is probably the nicest, friendliest to drive. If your power goals are less than 400kw then yes the Nismo is the go, but it sounds like you essentially want a stock clutch by they way you are wanting it to feel. The only clutch that will feel like that is an upgraded full face organic single plate, cushioned, sprung centre using the standard dual mass flywheel with an upgraded pressure plate. Most clutch manufacturers all sell something like this. The Nismo will come close, and would be a better value option than most singles, as it will drive almost like standard yet hold more power. Don't be fooled though, even the comp spec Nismo twin will not handle much abuse for long periods of time, it is still more like a street clutch only, which sounds like it will absolutely be fine for you.

The Getrag doesn't NEED a dual mass flywheel, but yes was used to make the box quieter. There is gearbox rattle, then there is multiplate rattle. The twin/triples only rattle when clutch pedal is depressed and is disengaged, as the floating discs are loose with no clamping load on them, they all do it, they don't rattle all the time when engaged. The gearbox noise referred to is the Getrag 6 speed rattle noise, and is caused by it's design. It is not helped that they essentially run an ATF as gearbox oil because of their synchro material. If it could run a thicker oil I'm sure it would be quieter, but they can't and that's just the way it is. The dual mass flywheel was an attempt to engineer out the noise, and running a single piece flywheel enhances this noise to a degree. How bad this noise is though is purely subjective as some people with think it's really noticeable, others will say "what noise" ?

Generally the dual mass flywheel is only retained on the most mildest cars as it is a heavy mofo at nearly 14.5kg! It's a heap of shit design and really shouldn't be in a performance car. A 14.5kg flywheel is a performance killer, even the R32/R33 GTR flywheel is around 10kg and that's a heavy thing, and is much improved upon with a lighter flywheel in the region of 6kg. Essentially the benefits of moving to a better multiplate and flywheel clutch far outweigh the cons of increased NVH in my opinion, unless you are highly annoyed by ANY increase in NVH.

For what it's worth I cannot speak highly enough about carbon clutches. They hold a lot more power and don't warp like their equivalent metal or ceramic plate versions, and are really great to drive. Only downside is that they are really expensive.

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12 hours ago, joshuaho96 said:

The problem with the Getrag V160 is that it needs a dual mass flywheel. If you don't use one it will be noisy as mentioned in the description. I don't believe the Super Coppermix Twin can use anything other than a lightweight flywheel. If you want to use the OEM flywheel try contacting ATS to see if they have anything. Depending on your power goals you can get a very light, streetable clutch that won't be noisy. It does cost a bit more than the Nismo clutch though if you want a carbon clutch disc.

Lets put it like this Joshua. First: My build its not a try somethin stuff,but still thanks for that advice.good to know.Second, yes I think I can spend more money if its gonna work considering carbon clutch.No problem at this point. So ,You are saying. first solution: Nismo coopermix Twin +lighweight flywheel(tell me what brand you reccomend), or second solution : Stock flywheel+ Carbon clutch(also,tell what you reccomend regarding clutch)? or again lightweight flywheel +Carbon clutch ? 

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Wow,thats a lot info BK.thanks. I will say,i will do a lot to have quiet clutch/transmission.When you said "full face organic single plate, cushioned, sprung centre using the standard dual mass flywheel with an upgraded pressure plate",you meant,its gonna be custom private work,or they are on the market right now? If they are,what are the models?   Secondly,as you know by my reply above to Joshua,I can afford carbon clutch.Thats the second solution.

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1 hour ago, Baroque said:

Lets put it like this Joshua. First: My build its not a try somethin stuff,but still thanks for that advice.good to know.Second, yes I think I can spend more money if its gonna work considering carbon clutch.No problem at this point. So ,You are saying. first solution: Nismo coopermix Twin +lighweight flywheel(tell me what brand you reccomend), or second solution : Stock flywheel+ Carbon clutch(also,tell what you reccomend regarding clutch)? or again lightweight flywheel +Carbon clutch ? 

Nismo clutches come with a flywheel.

Also, a long time ago I had a single plate organic in an R32 GTR.  It was fine. (Was used with a single mass flywheel)

https://www.xtremeclutch.com.au/en/product-range/clutch-kits/stage-1

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Yes the Xtreme sprung single plate ones above are where it starts for an attempt at retaining the stock clutch feel. All have heavier pressure plate. All single plates are generally designed to be compatible with the standard flywheels, yet usually have light chromoly versions to suit as an option available. The Exedy equivalent is this:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EXEDY-clutch-kit-HEAVY-DUTY-for-NISSAN-skyline-R34-GTR-RB26DETT-2-6litre-/131647971336&ved=2ahUKEwj91Jf2x7HlAhVq73MBHbJvCuQQFjAMegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw3p4reyX6EoViZHJ3c-TBer&cshid=1571805652159

Multiplates are generally all designed around using a supplied light flywheel for that specific clutch, that's why multiplates are more expensive as they generally always come with a flywheel, and singles generally do not.

You mentioned the carbon clutches, they are great and now will only use a carbon clutch. Anyone who has seen my posts in the last ten to fifteen years will know the clutch troubles I've had, and that I think the ATS carbons are completely on another level compared to any other clutch or brand on the market. The triples are stupidly high rated, like 1400hp +, and drive like a dream. Seriously if you drove one no way anyone would think they were a solid centre triple, as they are so progressive because they have carbon friction discs and can be slipped, not on or off engagement. Only give away that it's a multiplate is that they have the signature multiplate rattle when clutch is depressed, which I don't see as a negative. I like it when someone who thinks they know a thing or two say when the clutch is depresssed "what's wrong with your car ?", it cracks me up. I think now if I DON'T hear that sound, it must be a shit clutch as ALL multiplates should rattle when depressed, if not the clutch is most likely not disengaging properly, and that is very,very bad.

These carbon clutches mostly on the market like OS giken, Nismo, Exedy and ATS are generally carbon friction discs, but still with metallic floating discs and pressure plate. ATS has the extra option of carbon coating the metallic floating discs and pressure plate also, so it's carbon on carbon making them last even longer and handle more torque. Carbon also has a natural tendency to absorb drive line shockload compared to other materials, great for launching at high GTR rpms. That's what I run and I love them. It's a shame though as the price is through the roof now, I used to get the triples for around $2600 trade price, now the triples are a $3500- $4500 clutch depending on options. RHDjapan is about the best place to source them now as Australian Clutch Services in Adelaide (aka XClutch, Xtreme) don't appear to source them anymore.

Not that this really applies here, but If you really wanted to get crazy ATS is the only ones who make true carbon / carbon clutches. That is, carbon friction discs, carbon floating discs (not coated, actual full carbon), and carbon pressure plates ! Freaking amazing with 1000hp single, 2000hp twin, 3000hp triple all the way to 4000hp quad plate. Apparently wears like 0.1 - 0.4mm after 300 launches across entire clutch, which is unheard of compared to anything else available. You can have one too with the singles around $7000, twins $9000 and the triples around $12000. Quad - $15000 (yes not a typo) This is the type of clutch that will outlive the life of any transmission and most cars though. For drooling awesomeness:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.a-t-s.co.jp/00english/01e-clutch/index_fcc.html&ved=2ahUKEwiwhLCb0bHlAhWi7XMBHSqcDBIQFjAIegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw2Hmd1F-64fNivjXO5BZieY&cshid=1571808466663

Sorry, getting a bit of topic for you now, just pointing out what's out there and illustrating how carbon clutches have really changed the game, which seems to have gone a bit under the radar as most people don't run them because of the cost.

Coming back down to Earth, Check out ATS. You can definitely find something suitable. If you want to go down the carbon path, the starting point carbon clutches would be something like this:

Single - $2300

https://www.greenline.jp/catalogue/item.php?category=drivetrain&subcat=Clutches&brand=ATS&series=&name=Carbon+Clutch+(Single+Plate)&carcode=R34C&fromlink=2

Twin - $3200

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.rhdjapan.com/ats-across-carbon-twin-clutch-kit-spec-1-1350kg-getrag-nismo-shaft-light-weight-bnr34.html&ved=2ahUKEwinq_r807HlAhVn7HMBHbSeDB0QFjAKegQIBhAC&usg=AOvVaw3uoyATS9IGvVQQEMO-a6u7&cshid=1571808839898

Either would suit you fine. BK out, - back to work.

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ATS has a "silent clutch" that bolts up to the OEM flywheel for the R34 and can be a twin plate to hold power. The question I have is whether their pull style clutch has a similar variant, otherwise you need to do a pull to push clutch conversion.

I would also say that you shouldn't be taking random strangers online at their word, you should do your own research. Many tuners out there will also not have any interest in what you want to do with your car so be prepared to shop around to find someone that is willing to think about what you want.

Edited by joshuaho96

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3 hours ago, joshuaho96 said:

ATS has a "silent clutch" that bolts up to the OEM flywheel for the R34 and can be a twin plate to hold power. The question I have is whether their pull style clutch has a similar variant, otherwise you need to do a pull to push clutch conversion.

I would also say that you shouldn't be taking random strangers online at their word, you should do your own research. Many tuners out there will also not have any interest in what you want to do with your car so be prepared to shop around to find someone that is willing to think about what you want.

Mate, he has asked the question and has gotten some very good advice from people who have had and been on the forum and involved with GTRs for a very long time here in Australia. He wants to be pointed in the right direction about what's what from people who have had direct experience with clutches and the drivelines.

Do your own research is exactly what he's trying to do by asking people with actual experience with the topic.

Those ATS silent clutches are a massively derated clutch compared to their normal spec 1 carbon lineup, and don't come in pull. The Spec 2 carbons are available in pull with their new options. Stop advocating that he keeps the dual mass flywheel. The GTR is a performance car, they should be immediately upgraded to a solid if the car has anymore than standard power. I guess the question is still on the power output of said car, as this still has not been mentioned to go one way or the other.

If the car is to be kept STANDARD, (but why are you upgrading the clutch on a stock car ?), then by all means retain the dual mass. But then it essetially has to be in perfect condition which  I guarantee it will not be, no flywheel after use will be within the tolerances of run out required, and therefore not be usable with a new clutch. Please the watch this from Australian clutch services in Adelaide:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DNsvSb33xyxI&ved=2ahUKEwik-PPevbPlAhUO7XMBHduoBbYQwqsBMAB6BAgGEAQ&usg=AOvVaw1Ko6V8yCcmBCcy4AN05ynb

And then watch again from ACS:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D3N4_pvjzgaw&ved=2ahUKEwiC6LOdwLPlAhXNIbcAHYX9BlsQo7QBMAB6BAgAEAI&usg=AOvVaw0gjCdwJ0jbOReUYg75niMw

Still want to retain the dual mass ?

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6 minutes ago, BK said:

Mate, he has asked the question and has gotten some very good advice from people who have had and been on the forum and involved with GTRs for a very long time here in Australia. He wants to be pointed in the right direction about what's what from people who have had direct experience with clutches and the drivelines.

Do your own research is exactly what he's trying to do by asking people with actual experience with the topic.

Those ATS silent clutches are a massively derated clutch compared to their normal spec 1 carbon lineup, and don't come in pull. The Spec 2 carbons come in pull. Stop advocating that he keeps the dual mass flywheel. The GTR is a performance car, they should be immediately upgraded to a solid if the car has anymore than standard power. I guess the question is still on the power output of said car, as this still has not been mentioned to go one way or the other.

If the car is to be kept STANDARD, then by all means retain the dual mass. But then it essetially has to be in perfect condition which  I guarantee it will not be, no flywheel after use will be within the tolerances of run out required, and therefore not be usable with a new clutch. Please the watch this from Australian clutch services in Adelaide:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DNsvSb33xyxI&ved=2ahUKEwik-PPevbPlAhUO7XMBHduoBbYQwqsBMAB6BAgGEAQ&usg=AOvVaw1Ko6V8yCcmBCcy4AN05ynb

And then watch again from ACS:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D3N4_pvjzgaw&ved=2ahUKEwiC6LOdwLPlAhXNIbcAHYX9BlsQo7QBMAB6BAgAEAI&usg=AOvVaw0gjCdwJ0jbOReUYg75niMw

Still want to retain the dual mass ?

I'm not advocating for a dual mass flywheel, I'm just under the impression that he wants to have none of the noises that go with a normal flywheel either the ~10kg heavy variant or ~6kg lightweight variant when paired to a Getrag V160. My personal vote would be ATS spec 2 with the heavy flywheel option but that's just me.

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Spec 2 looks very good, but wasn't available when I was obtaining them through ACS. More pressure plate options and different leverage ratios meaning they can achieve some super light pedal feel - one even claims to be lighter than stock.

I think OP needs to go to a workshop with an R34 GTR fitted with a clutch that has a solid flywheel (which will be 90% of R34s here) and be driven in it to demonstrate it really is a non issue with any noise.

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I'm running an Exedy HD clutch "Sports Tuff" kit. Cheap single Plate in the scheme of things.

Have had it on the car since 2013. 

Have done 2 GTR Festival Motorkhana's with multiple 6200rpm launches via Haltech Launch control.

Still feels as tight as it did from new.

No flywheel rattles on idle (even with a mild lumpy idle from Poncam Type R's)

Running 300+ awkw.

 

 

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This topic is great because a lot of people now will get a lot of info for them.I'm getting wiser at least and im happy for that,because definitely it isn't my enviroment in car modifications.I will answer like this for all your replies:

-Yes,im doing my research by asking skyline owners with experiences in clutches matter,because thats how im gonna choose the BEST one.

-My driving style and attitude is standard,normal,mild,to have a great time with car on lower and higher rpms,but still ,non beating the engine on high rpms,but definitetly my build need aftermarket clutch.Not stock.It can be single considering my style,but if it can be non rattle twin,thats the best thing right here.

-Im looking ONLY for NON RATTLE situation(especially on idle) when clutch still being smooth and light for street use.

-I was preparing my project/budget for a long time,so i can afford for very,very expensive clutch in that regard.

So that being said - lets have a "sum up" meeting right here,and im asking for direct/straightforward recommendations considering my "rules and needs" included in that reply.

 

 

 

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