Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[jjman]

3. Are aftermarket intake pipes needed for any of the above? Would prefer to stick with the stock rubber hoses.

Basically yes. Some people get away with it, most don't at those kinds of power levels (they warp/ or suck shut).

Beyond that is that you will get better flow/power with an intake pipe.

Edited January 6, 2014 by jjman

[R_34]

Are the standard rubber hose reinforced with a spring inside ?

If the hose collapse under load you can say goodbye to you turbo and possibly the engine as well.

The turbo will overspin dangerously to maintain target boost pressure, possibly getting in the surge zone, and it will leak really badly from the compressor seal leading to knock.

Hard pipe for the intake is always a good thing.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Are the standard rubber hose reinforced with a spring inside ?

No, they collapse on a hot day with anything more than stock boost levels when using a factory airbox or a semi restrictive pod filter

[hypergear]

I'm using a 3 inch metal induction pipe that is clamped onto the factory air box.

OP6 high flowed turbocharger. Standard turbo profile:

Here are all the results labeled:

I was unable to run any more boost beyond 22psi with internal gate. How ever had no issues doing 24psi external.

Power wise compare internal v external was 25kws. note the back to back run on 19psi.

I'm very confident that this high flowed turbocharger will do 385rwkws on the Brae high mount manifold externally gated.

Even tho this is a remarkable gain from modifying a factory exhaust manifold. How ever, running the same turbocharger with a proper high mount will gain bit more power and much better top end torque.

The gain over internal gate by fitting external gate on factory exhaust manifold in this case is: 7.24%

While the gain over internal gate by fitting external gate on turbine housing is: 1.5%

Reference of Internal gate V external gate on turbine housing:

Solid red = internal gate

Dotted red = external gate off turbine housing

And if any one wants their manifold to be done. The cost for doing so is $300 and our 50mm HPVA gates are $350 in additional.

[hypergear]

Video:

[m.j.h]

I so want one of these

What other mods are done to the motor fuel wise etc to support these numbers?

[hypergear]

Apart from the turbocharger and gate.

I have:

450L/H Fuel pump

1200 cc injectors

Adaptronic plug in ECU

3inch turbo back exhaust

600x300x75mm cooler kit

My engine is forged with CP 1:9 pistons, Super tech valve springs and valve sets.

Your stock engine is fine for up to 20psi mark which is about 350rwkws on paper.

To build this turbocharger I will need a donor turbo from a R34 with a OP6 rear housing.

Back to the high flowing topic. The current profiled OP6 turbocharger should be pretty close reaching 300rwkws on a internally gated setup with pump 98 Fuel. And good enough for 350rwkws working with a proper high mount externally gated setup running E85.

[Missileman]

Are these silicone intake pipes any better than stock? or will they still suck shut on a highflow @ 200rwkw

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261146335739?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

[Marcus89]

Are these silicone intake pipes any better than stock? or will they still suck shut on a highflow @ 200rwkw

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261146335739?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

At 200rwkw I doubt the standard one would suck shut. That silicone one wouldn't be much better than standard I bet. Possibly a bit better but if you want to run higher boost I'd like the piece of mind of a solid intake

Edited January 8, 2014 by Marcus89

[GTSBoy]

Silicone ones suck shut.

[hypergear]

Stock induction pipe will suck shut.

You can make a hard induction pipe out of couple of silicon joiners like:

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/261613-hypergear-hiflow-service-continued/page-89

or you can pm M35scotty for his induction pipe which allow factory bov and breather plumbings.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/261613-hypergear-hiflow-service-continued/page-288

[V28VX37]

Are these silicone intake pipes any better than stock? or will they still suck shut on a highflow @ 200rwkw

...

At 200rwkw I doubt the standard one would suck shut. That silicone one wouldn't be much better than standard I bet. Possibly a bit better but if you want to run higher boost I'd like the piece of mind of a solid intake

I had no trouble whatsoever with the R34 OEM rubber intake pipe @ 199rwkw. Then again, I think a highflow should take you beyond 200rwkw fairly easily?

I'm now running Scotty's intake pipe @ 257rwkw, it looks good and works great.

[scotty nm35]

Thanks guys.

The stock one can start to collapse not much over 200kw, but it only happens when the manifold is glowing. The lower section of the intake isn't protected well from the radiated heat and it softens the rubber/silicone. You can slide a piece of 3 inch stainless inside the corrugated section to help, but the lower bend will still suck in at around 250kw from my experience. Changing to an alloy intake solves most issues, but it would need the BOV return and breather fitting to remain legal.

[jjman]

Thanks guys.

The stock one can start to collapse not much over 200kw, but it only happens when the manifold is glowing. The lower section of the intake isn't protected well from the radiated heat and it softens the rubber/silicone. You can slide a piece of 3 inch stainless inside the corrugated section to help, but the lower bend will still suck in at around 250kw from my experience. Changing to an alloy intake solves most issues, but it would need the BOV return and breather fitting to remain legal.

yeah, similarly mine made it to 207rwkw. but then at 220rwkw it was sucking shut intermittently. Bitch of a thing not knowing when ur going to get power or if the power is going to nose over above 4500rpm...

just the replacement alloy intake pipe alone freed up another 8rwhp.

[colourclassic]

Good to know about the intake guys

[Super Drager]

Great work, lots of progress. So, compound turbo setup next?

Edited January 9, 2014 by Super Drager

[hypergear]

I looked at compound system few years ago. The original compound Diesel system for a truck which is by turbocharging a smaller turbo with a large turbo, Not sure if it would work on a high performance petrol system.

There are two things doesn't look right for petrol.

1. Exhaust side

Exhaust manifold mounts to the exhaust housing of the smaller turbocharger.

The outlet of the smaller turbocharger's turbine housing goes to the inlet of the large turbocharger.

2. Induction side

Outlet of the large turbocharger force feed smaller turbocharger's inlet,

out let of the smaller turbocharger goes to the intercooler.

Put them together we have:

Big compressor of turbocharger two, with small turbine end of turbocharger one.

Unless there is a way which turbocharger one can increase its flow capacity to suit turbocharger two's compressor when needed. I think its going to make the engine pin.

Also if photo above is based on a RB25det using a Compound turbo system, then I think the SS2 Alpha have made better power band.

Other alternative for huge power with stock response is by using a welly tuned sequential twin system. I do have drawings to make that work and is probably the next thing on the trail list. Its going to get very expansive how ever, and I'm not sure how things might be fitted under the bonnet.

[Super Drager]

I looked at compound system few years ago. The original compound Diesel system for a truck which is by turbocharging a smaller turbo with a large turbo, Not sure if it k on a high performance petrol system.

There are two things doesn't look right for petrol.

1. Exhaust side

Exhaust manifold mounts to the exhaust housing of the smaller turbocharger.

The outlet of the smaller turbocharger's turbine housing goes to the inlet of the large turbocharger.

2. Induction side

Outlet of the large turbocharger force feed smaller turbocharger's inlet,

out let of the smaller turbocharger goes to the intercooler.

Put them together we have:

Big compressor of turbocharger two, with small turbine end of turbocharger one.

Unless there is a way which turbocharger one can increase its flow capacity to suit turbocharger two's compressor when needed. I think its going to make the engine pin.

Also if photo above is based on a RB25det using a Compound turbo system, then I think the SS2 Alpha have made better power band.

Thats because the picture I posted was of a ebay t70 with a s15 t28 as the small turbo vs just the ebay t70. Went from 1 bar at 4500 to 1 bar at 3000. With better turbos it would be a lot better. Ofcourse the results arent earth shattering but what do you expect from a build made from bits lying around the workshop.

Other alternative for huge power with stock response is by using a welly tuned sequential twin system. I do have drawings to make that work and is probably the next thing on the trail list. Its going to get very expansive how ever, and I'm not sure how things might be fitted under the bonnet.

Compound turbo has been done many times on petrol engines and workes very well. Just ask kevin jewer how his 8 second dsm was spooling a 80mm BW Turbo by 4500rpm on a 2l four banger. An ss2 with an atr46 would be awesome. I will be going forward with mine as soon as my new engine is in.

Apologies in advance for bad spelling etc im on my phone :-p

Edited January 9, 2014 by Super Drager

[Kinkstaah]

I thought the 'best" way would be to have a turbo outlet force feed into a roots/screw type charger inlet, then the charger outlet into the intercooler.

At least in my crazy fantasy world

[GTSBoy]

I thought the 'best" way would be to have a turbo outlet force feed into a roots/screw type charger inlet, then the charger outlet into the intercooler.

At least in my crazy fantasy world

Not crazy at all. A guy on PF did it to an RB2530 in a VL. Absolute torque monster and massive power everywhere, even with relatively low boost setting on each of the blower and the wastegate. Large turbine housing means low backpressure, but blower means boost from idle, so response is stilll good.