Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

I don't know but the 9174 is now useless, at least for RB guys, as the new one will be better everywhere with lower inertia.

The inducer are really close between 9174 and this new 8474 so I think that they'll spool almost the same,the newer will be slightly better. Wait and see for the release date and the first results if they didn't send some units for "testing" purpose.

The 9180 won't move I think as it is more suited to large engines, the 9174 will be obsolete and the 8374 should stay as it will be a quicker spooling turbo that it's bigger brother. Well those are just guesses time will tell.

I spotted this morning on FB that a compressor update is coming on the 8374 which will become a 8474 :
 
14947572_907707380623_7496543437184383879_n.jpg?oh=9efe6327be8eb762444b8bcf78691020&oe=58D32920
 
It shows some nice gain in flow beyond 2.2 PR with high efficiency even at high flow rates. The surge line hasn't moved too much to the right, wait and see for the spool characteristic of this new combo as a +5mm on the inducer is huge.
IMHO i may replace the 9174 as it has almost the same practical flow, better efficiency but with a smaller compressor wheel.

I'll test it! Send me one geoff!

Would they release that type of info if it had not been tried and tested?

I doubt they would mention it and definitely not show  the graph if they were having problems.

I would think it would stop or at least slow down the sales of the 8374 by releasing this type information, but ????

I think it's not necessarily that it's not working right so much as being a lot more careful to ensure that whatever they release is on point and works best - not putting all eggs in one basket and also not throwing out a product before everything is "in place" like last time, I think they're trying to learn from last time and do a better job. The fact that they already have compressor maps should suggest they aren't pissing around.

I have my concerns about the huge trim wheel BUT I have also experienced EFR7163s (which I was similarly concerned about, they have a similar sized inducer to EFR7670s and GTX3076Rs) first hand and they spool better than a GT2871R....  so Borg Warner aren't newbs, and I wouldn't rely on conventional wisdom when you have something that is pretty outside of convention - we can but just wait for real results.

Something worth noting with that compressor map and indicates where this should be relevant to the interests of Skyline guys/everyone who have been worried about the risk of overspinning these turbos.  If you look at the 2.8 pressure ratio line at the 75lb/min area which is more or less the common and sensible area to stop pushing harder with an EFR8374 on an RB, the old EFR8374 is >111,000rpm so both compressor flow and max safe rpm are starting to get close.    The prototype compressor map shows it as under 104,000rpm, you could push the same setup up to 80lb/min and still not be working the turbine as hard.

It is good to see Borg Warner still developing these and can't wait to see a new product emerge.

  • Like 2

If you were to have a guess Dan, when would something like this be finalized and in production or the bin.

My problem is time and waiting 6 months, a year or so is not going to happen and I would still have to go with the 8374 and install the speed sensor, but will wait until I see what is happening with the 8474 :/

15 hours ago, Piggaz said:

Who knows.

Purchase the turbo a week before it goes in. Whatever is available, buy it. 

I ordered my 8374 and it took 9.5mths to arrive......order one now! Haha!

50 minutes ago, Sub Boy32 said:

I ordered my 8374 and it took 9.5mths to arrive......order one now! Haha!

Hi Chris, that's what I have been thinking, but now with the 8474 in the wind , I think sales will slow down for what could be  "The Old Model " 8374 ????

  • Like 1

Hey all, been reading this forum for like 8 years but never bothered creating an account. Have enjoyed reading these EFR threads :).

Currently building an R32 GTR myself and have decided to go with the 9174. I'm not sure where everyone is buying there EFR's from but I have been quoted for an alloy bearing housing 9174 Supercore at $1897+GST from MTQ, they also quoted the 1.05 ext gate housing at $891+GST but it looks like JEGS sell the 1.05 housing at 575aud not inc shipping.

so approx $2700 all up. A lot cheaper than I can find everywhere else.

i was also about to buy a 9174 but am wondering how quickly the 8474 will be available (if at all ) Plus no one seems to be able to give any meaningful results for the 9174

The car is having other work done so it doest matter if I had to wait a month or so - longer than that and i need to buy a turbo. Have looked at precisions but prefer an EFR as long as i can get the right one.

I was told the 8374 would be maxed out , didnt want a 9180 as I dont need to go into orbit so a 9174 seems to fit nicely inbetween .. I was looking at the ext gate 1.05 but only because thats what ive been advised so far

Engine is an OS giken 3 litre , with a flowed head and 1 mm o/size valves step 2 hks cams with uparated springs etc manifold is a 6 boost. It has a crank trigger set up running with a link G4

Is a 9174 the right way to go  - thats an honest question and would really appreciate feedback because im really not sure what you can get from an 8374

Looking for round 800 bhp (uk at the crank ) . The info on the EFRs s pretty limited in the Uk or put another way nowhere near as good as in Oz

18 hours ago, GREENMAHINEUK said:

i was also about to buy a 9174 but am wondering how quickly the 8474 will be available (if at all ) Plus no one seems to be able to give any meaningful results for the 9174

The car is having other work done so it doest matter if I had to wait a month or so - longer than that and i need to buy a turbo. Have looked at precisions but prefer an EFR as long as i can get the right one.

I was told the 8374 would be maxed out , didnt want a 9180 as I dont need to go into orbit so a 9174 seems to fit nicely inbetween .. I was looking at the ext gate 1.05 but only because thats what ive been advised so far

Engine is an OS giken 3 litre , with a flowed head and 1 mm o/size valves step 2 hks cams with uparated springs etc manifold is a 6 boost. It has a crank trigger set up running with a link G4

Is a 9174 the right way to go  - thats an honest question and would really appreciate feedback because im really not sure what you can get from an 8374

Looking for round 800 bhp (uk at the crank ) . The info on the EFRs s pretty limited in the Uk or put another way nowhere near as good as in Oz

From what I have found out about the 8374, it is about the same 800BHP as my PT6266 Gen 2 , but spools quicker and better transient response and the 6266 is pretty good but probably works better top end. As far as I know they rate most turbos at BHP (crank)

With a 3Lt the 8374 would be great, been in one and it flies. I have a 3.2Lt and if I was going for good response and mad top end I would go 9180 as they also seem to get going similar or better than the 6266.

I am sure there are some blokes here that can steer you in the right direction.

Mr Lithium , I'd like to hear of your experience with the 7163 . Some users in the US think they are a bit laggy for their size and output . I don't know if anyones had one as a singleon an RB but its an interesting thought on an RB25 .

 

A .

19 hours ago, GREENMAHINEUK said:

i was also about to buy a 9174 but am wondering how quickly the 8474 will be available (if at all ) Plus no one seems to be able to give any meaningful results for the 9174

The car is having other work done so it doest matter if I had to wait a month or so - longer than that and i need to buy a turbo. Have looked at precisions but prefer an EFR as long as i can get the right one.

I was told the 8374 would be maxed out , didnt want a 9180 as I dont need to go into orbit so a 9174 seems to fit nicely inbetween .. I was looking at the ext gate 1.05 but only because thats what ive been advised so far

Engine is an OS giken 3 litre , with a flowed head and 1 mm o/size valves step 2 hks cams with uparated springs etc manifold is a 6 boost. It has a crank trigger set up running with a link G4

Is a 9174 the right way to go  - thats an honest question and would really appreciate feedback because im really not sure what you can get from an 8374

Looking for round 800 bhp (uk at the crank ) . The info on the EFRs s pretty limited in the Uk or put another way nowhere near as good as in Oz

I will be able to let you know in about a month.

I have an RB30 with a 8374 (I got one of the first batch of them about five years ago). It was a 0.92 a/r IWG exhaust housing and it made 650hp at all four wheels on pump gas. It did suffer from high back pressure due to the exhaust housing being too small and had issues above 22psi. I have now got a 1.05 EWG exhaust housing and twin 40mm wastegates going on the car which no doubt will make a bit more power (not that I'm chasing anymore power) but it should have a bit better control and a slightly better torque curve as we were having to roll off the boost in the top end.

12 hours ago, discopotato03 said:

Mr Lithium , I'd like to hear of your experience with the 7163 . Some users in the US think they are a bit laggy for their size and output . I don't know if anyones had one as a singleon an RB but its an interesting thought on an RB25 .

Hi Adrian, long time no speak.  

So for transparency on this one, I'd been dubious of the EFR7163 - tbh some of the dyno plots I've seen for them have not been that convincing and I'm still not quite sure what that is about (I have since seen very convincing dyno plots too - so maybe they were setup issues!?), also the very large trim compressor wheel thing made me feel it was more to do with managing space and maybe turbine speed than actual real world performance improvements.   I did wonder if they were going to end up being somewhere between a 7064 and a 7670 and tbh I've not experienced either of those two turbos first hand so maybe it could be possible that I'm underestimating what they'd be like as well - but for now going off what Geoff Raicer has said about the 7163 it feels like the wise choice is that he was onto something when he raved about them when they first broke cover.  I'm not going to eat my hat about being cautious about them though, better that than tell everyone the new best thing is here with absolutely no evidence and turn out to possibly have given out terrible advice :) 

The best data I have on the EFR7163 was from sitting in the passenger seat of a Celica GT4 running a stock 3SGTE with an .80 twin scroll EFR7163 with some fabrication done to pair it up to the stock GT4 twin scroll manifold.  Attached is some plotting of boost vs rpm for a pull in 1st gear, 2nd gear and 3rd gear.   In 1st it was hitting ~20psi in the high 4000rpm range, 2nd it was between mid/maybe low 4000rpm depending on when the pull started and 3rd it was comfortably hitting 20psi by mid 3000rpm.   With enough time and loading in 3rd we were actually regularly seeing 1bar barely over 3000rpm lurking around in a 50kph zone, as can be seen here.

I think compared to what we had in the 90s and early 2000s the EFR7163 could pass for a stock turbo on a 2litre engine, it may have been ever so slightly more doughy than a typical T28BB (my natural comparison when thinking of a "decent" stock turbo from a 2litre turbo car of our era) under 3000rpm but once you start getting into the boost threshold range of the EFR7163 (3500+) on the 2litre the EFR actually started felt as good if not better.    

I think one of these would be crazy on an RB25.  Without having experienced one first hand I'd have been dubious, when you consider it's 57mm inducer compressor rated at near 60lb/min of flow.  I daren't predict how one would drive on an RB25 but from my impressions with the GT4 I would not hesitate to say it'd be MUCH better than anything I've ever been in when aiming for the type of performance "we" like.   That is nice road manners and something that won't be a stupid mismatch at any kind of boost which the stock motor is happy with on 98 octane.  The most recent big turbo RB25s I've been in have run GT3076R and ATR43SS2 (both journal and DBB) and they are not in the same league of spool.  You wouldn't need to get the logs out and trawl them to work out what the comparison is, I'd put it out there that you could potentially do a casual drive around a city block without even going WOT and you'd have a pretty good idea, if that makes sense?

14159298_1058010924295065_1271784332_n.jpg?oh=0ef36881d73e10ca02d1462a4a2e3c72&oe=5821E36B

 

 

1 hour ago, Griffin said:

How would a efr 7670 perform on Rb26 n1 engine with 264 cams? 

Looking at near 400 rwkw on e85. close to it now with a plain bearing borgwarner. I'm after more go under 3500 rpm. 100% Street driven.

For what it's worth, I was in that car with Dan that day "scoping out" the 7163.

7163 is a 60 lb snail and to draw a comparison, the GTX 3071 is a 56 lb huffer. It's hard to believe that the 7163 came on so strong on 2.0, no spiny cam engine like it did. It almost felt like it was too small, but that's only because  it was on so early.

Bump it up another 560 ish cc, a 7670 would be an absolute bullet on a RB26. Definitely a combo I would like to see put together! What rear housing/gate/manifold combo would you be looking at running?

 

  • Like 1

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Thanks for all the replies fellas. Gonna finish putting it back together and see how it handles the set up. If it starts pinging it’ll be parked.
    • Well, I can recommend the partial AV system translation CD I ordered from Car Audio Workshop in NZ. Whilst it didn't address the date issue, it has conveniently translated on-screen menu items into English, and now allows the GPS-received time to be offset in hours rather than minutes, so I can display Eastern Australian time accurately ( and bump it by another hour when daylight savings starts ).
    • Yuh, if it's 45°C outside, my car is driving in it.
    • I'd be curious to hear more. Otherwise, have you driven a modern x-trail? I wonder how it compares. Here in Australia they are/were popular for rentals and fleet vehicles. I have been in some and my impression was they are bad. But, this may have been very different in the 2000s at a good trim level. Twenty years is plenty of time to make the model worse. I do very much agree with the 2 silver cars in the garage approach. But, not driving because it's too hot would not leave a lot of time in the year for many Australians. I don't think you need to worry too much unless the car has actual issues with overheating. 
    • Back again. I returned to Japan in Jul/Aug to spend time with the car on my birthday and remind myself what all the sacrifice and compromise is for. It happened to line up with the monthly morning meet in Okutama, which I have been wanting to go to for a long time. It's a unique event at a unique spot with really rare, interesting, and quirky cars. It's where all the oldheads and OGs gather. The nighttime scene at DKF certainly has its place and should be experienced if you're into cars, but there's too much bad attention and negativity around it now. IMO the better time is Sunday morning at DKF or Okutama; it's more chill and relaxed. I'm glad I was finally able to go, but not sure it's worth the drive from all the way from Nagoya immediately the day before, unless I was already staying in Tokyo for the days right before the meet, because you have to wake up quite early to make it in time. Funnily enough though I didn't drive the car all that much this trip because it was just too damn hot. While there were zero issues and running temps were nominal and the A/C was strong, RBs already run crazy hot as it is. Sure, it took it all like a champ but something about driving these cars in the ridiculous heat/humidity bothers me and makes me feel like I'm asking too much of it. I'm just me being weird and treating the car like a living thing with feelings; I'm mechanically sympathetic to a fault. Instead I was mainly driving something else around - a KX4(silver) 2001 X-Trail GT, that I acquired in May. There's a few different flavors to choose from with Xs, but visually it's the Nissan version of the Honda CR-V. Mechanically it's a whole different story as this, being the top-trim GT, has an SR20VET mated to a four-speed auto and full-time AWD! It was a very affordable buy in exceptional condition inside and out, with very low mileage...only 48k kms. Most likely it was owned by an older person who kept it garaged and well-maintained, so I'm really happy with how it all worked out. It literally needs zero attention at the moment, albeit except for some minor visual touch-ups. I wanted something quirky, interesting, and practical and for sure it handily delivers on all three of those aspects. I was immediately able to utilize the cargo and passenger capacity to its full extent. It's a lot of fun to drive and is quite punchy through 1st and 2nd. It's very unassuming -in the twisty bits it's a lot more composed than one would think at a glance- and it'll be even better once I get better tires on it(yes, it's an SUV but still a little boat-y for my liking). So...now I have two golden-era Nissans in silver. One sports car and one that does everything else; the perfect two-car solution I think👍 The rest of the trip...I was able to turn my stressed brain off and enjoy it, although I didn't quite get to do as much as I thought. I did some interesting things, met some interesting people, and happened into some interesting situations however, that's all for another post though only if people really want to know. Project-wise, I went back to Mine's again to discuss more plans and am hoping to wrap that up real soon; keep watching this space if that interests you. Additionally, while working in the tormenting sweatbox that is the warehouse, I was able to organize most of the myriad of parts that my friend is storing for me along with the cars, and the 34 has a nice little spot carved out for it: And since it can get so stupid hot in there, that made it all the more easy -after I was standing there looking at the car and said 'f**k it'- to finally remove all the damn gauges that have mostly been an eyesore all this time. Huzzah. The heat basically makes the adhesive backing on the gauge mounts more pliable to work with, so it was far less stressful getting this done. I didn't fully clean it up or chase the wiring though; that will happen once I have the car in closer possession. Another major reason to remove all that stuff is to give people less reasons to get in my car and steal s**t while it's being exported/imported when/if the time comes, which leads us to my next point... ...and that is even though it's time in Japan is technically almost up since it's a November car and the X would be coming in March, I'm still not entirely sure where my life and career is headed; I don't really know what the future looks like and where I'm going to end up. I feel there's a great deal of uncertainty with me and as a result of that, it feels like I'm at a crossroads moreso now than any point in my life thus far and there are some choices I need to make. Yes, I've had some years to consider things and prepare myself, however too much has happened in that time to maintain confidence and everything feels so up in the air; tenuous one might say. Simply put, there's just too much nonsense going on right now from multiple vectors. Admittedly, I'm struggling to stay in the game and keep my eyes on the prize. So much so in fact, that very recently I came the closest I ever have before to calling it quits outright; selling everything and moving on and not looking back. The astute among you will pick up on key subtext within this paragraph. In the meantime I've still managed to slowly acquire some final bits for the car, but it feels nice knowing there's not much left to get and I'm almost across that finish line; I have almost everything I'll ever want for my interpretation and expression on what it is I think an R34 should be. 'til later.
×
×
  • Create New...