Advice on setup for R34 GTR 600-700awhp RELIABLE

[r32-25t]

You don’t need a brace on a billet block, in fact you can’t even fit one because they are designed differently 

[BK]

On 22/07/2022 at 8:35 AM, r32-25t said:

You don’t need a brace on a billet block, in fact you can’t even fit one because they are designed differently 

Yeah it's an awesome concept they've done at Bullet. The chunky 4 bolt main cap design is very impressive as it effectively braces against the outer edges of the already much more rigid block.

[burn4005]

If you are buying a New N1 block, I would go billet provided you don't live in Darwin.

main Caveat with billet is the pump must be external, and the car should be fully warmed up before driving it due to Bearing clearances being very tight cold and quite loose hot (hence a lot of oil flow needed to achieve pressure)

Edited July 21, 2022 by burn4005

[bigboss59400]

Thanks a lot for your reply ! And especially to @burn4005 for your feedback on your setup which is basically the power I'm chasing

(Yes I will have a crank trigger )

OK then I will put a surge tank and a coolant swirl pot

I will stay with JUN as they are rated to 65 compared to kelford beehive which are 105 (too high for VCAM)

120+ even with the 25 row setrab in additiion for just a few laps that's huge ! so I guess I will not drive longer than that...

 

Interesting to know that the car needs to be fully warmed with a billet block which is quite annoying for the street aspect...

So I will stay with a new standard block + prp main cap

 

@Piggaz 2.7 piston speed is slowest than 2.8 so more "reliable" that's why

 

My last remaining question is :

nitto stroker kit 2.8 with wide bearing V2 or nitto stoker kit 2.7 V1 ? I prefer to have a 2.7 stroker but I like the idea of wider bearing...  or other ? why ?

[Piggaz]

If you’re worried about piston speed between a 2.7 and a 2.8 then why are you stroking at all? Keep the 2.6. How many 2.8’s are being used? 
 

You’ll end up revving the 2.7 slightly harder than the 2.8 so piston speed will end up the same same just at a slightly higher RPM with the 2.7.

[bigboss59400]

On 7/26/2022 at 12:11 AM, Piggaz said:

If you’re worried about piston speed between a 2.7 and a 2.8 then why are you stroking at all? Keep the 2.6. How many 2.8’s are being used? 
 

You’ll end up revving the 2.7 slightly harder than the 2.8 so piston speed will end up the same same just at a slightly higher RPM with the 2.7.

Is it a retoric question regaring the number of 2.8s ? To be honest, I did not fully paid attention to this detail so I have no clue...

I just noticed that Nitto is doing a 2.6 crankshaft too

So now it's either 2.6 crankshaft std or 2.8 crankshaft with wider bearing or ?

[joshuaho96]

I don't even think piston speed is a concern compared to rod ratio on the RB26 strokers. But even a 119.5 mm conrod length 77.7mm stroker still has a 1.54 rod ratio which is pretty close to what Honda was doing for a while, the B18C has a 1.58 rod ratio. EJ25s have a rod ratio of 1.65 but their block integrity is so poor already that any stroke increase is not recommended on those engines. The reason why everyone goes RB30 these days is the bump in the height of the block allows for a much longer connecting rod, even an RB34 has a 1.62 rod ratio which isn't far off from the 1.65 the RB26 is running stock. The problem with an RB30 build is of course packaging that extra height. Everything is subtly off and requires work to make everything fit properly again.

If you want power you're going to want a 2.8L stroker at the very least to have halfway decent low-end response. From there pick a turbo that isn't going to take forever to spool. Personally I would probably get whatever is the single equivalent to the 2530/-5 category that'll get you into the 10 second quart mile range. RBs suck to build for big power anyways. You can do it, plenty of people at Cootamundra do but it's just a lot more effort than I think it's worth.

[BK]

On 26/07/2022 at 8:12 AM, joshuaho96 said:

I don't even think piston speed is a concern compared to rod ratio on the RB26 strokers. But even a 119.5 mm conrod length 77.7mm stroker still has a 1.54 rod ratio

Nittos 2.8 like mine runs the standard 121.5mm rb26 conrod length with custom piston pin height with the 77.7mm crankshaft.

[joshuaho96]

On 7/25/2022 at 4:22 PM, BK said:

Nittos 2.8 like mine runs the standard 121.5mm rb26 conrod length with custom piston pin height with the 77.7mm crankshaft.

Right, it pushes the pin up higher in the piston which has its own compromises. Personally after thinking about it I just ended up deciding against a stroker and instead picked a turbo that is barely even big enough to use on a 2.57L engine.

[BK]

 

On 26/07/2022 at 8:59 AM, joshuaho96 said:

Right, it pushes the pin up higher in the piston which has its own compromises. Personally after thinking about it I just ended up deciding against a stroker and instead picked a turbo that is barely even big enough to use on a 2.57L engine.

Why do you seem to think you know much more than the people like Jim at Nitto doing their very in depth engineering and development outcomes ? 

[Piggaz]

These strokers have been run for decades. Too much theory text book dribble. A GTR needs a stroker to push its dumb head, short stroke, lack of low end grunt, lard ass around.

Do you think you’ll be able to notice the “downside” of a slightly short RS ratio? A shorter RS ratio has its own advantages too. How many kms of years of driving are you going to do before it becomes an issue? You probably would have sold the car.

[joshuaho96]

On 7/25/2022 at 4:37 PM, BK said:

 

Why do you seem to think you know much more than the people like Jim at Nitto doing their very in depth engineering and development outcomes ? 

 

On 7/25/2022 at 4:39 PM, Piggaz said:

These strokers have been run for decades. Too much theory text book dribble. A GTR needs a stroker to push its dumb head, short stroke, lack of low end grunt, lard ass around.

Do you think you’ll be able to notice the “downside” of a slightly short RS ratio? A shorter RS ratio has its own advantages too. How many kms of years of driving are you going to do before it becomes an issue? You probably would have sold the car.

I don't doubt that Nitto has made a kit that works and is fit for purpose. For me it's just about keeping things simple and my intended purpose generally being a weird one. Why change variables unless I know that it's actually necessary to? A shorter rod ratio does have some advantages but these are all short rod motors. The only question is the degree. The RB26 is already a factory stroker, there's some documentation out there that it was meant to be a 2.4L until a late change to 2.6L. The RB30 is what I'd consider long rod. I don't ever intend on selling my car. For OP I think it's clear they want a lot of power so getting to what I think is a fairly low rod ratio is acceptable. If they're ok with a lot of rejiggering to get an RB30 block to fit then I think that's probably a better approach though.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Nek minnit @joshuaho96 installs GT-RS twins for response.

[joshuaho96]

On 7/25/2022 at 5:13 PM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Nek minnit @joshuaho96 installs GT-RS twins for response.

anything, anything but that on a 2.6L.

[r32-25t]

On 26/7/2022 at 10:13 AM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Nek minnit @joshuaho96 installs GT-RS twins for response.

They probably be better then the dyno sheet I saw of the latest hks offerings 

[joshuaho96]

On 7/25/2022 at 7:17 PM, r32-25t said:

They probably be better then the dyno sheet I saw of the latest hks offerings 

The HKS GTIII-RS is so good that Subaru put it in the S209. Ringing endorsement really.

[Murray_Calavera]

This might be the way you can keep your .6 motor

https://bulletraceengineering.com.au/shop/rb30sx/

Now it's 3.6 litre xD

Edited July 26, 2022 by Murray_Calavera

[bigboss59400]

THanks guys for your inputs !

Keep in mind that I will use the VCAM so I will get some low-mid range there so the 2.8 is not that really justify there ?

I just like the idea of having bigger bearings on the crankshaft which is only available for the 2.8 stroker...

Maybe both choices are good enough for my purpose and I just need to pick one ?

[joshuaho96]

On 7/26/2022 at 5:40 AM, bigboss59400 said:

THanks guys for your inputs !

Keep in mind that I will use the VCAM so I will get some low-mid range there so the 2.8 is not that really justify there ?

I just like the idea of having bigger bearings on the crankshaft which is only available for the 2.8 stroker...

Maybe both choices are good enough for my purpose and I just need to pick one ?

If you want huge power and you don't want to deal with the engine being taller and all the pain that entails: 

 

Then the answer is 2.8 + VCAM. You need every bit of VE you can to spool the turbos.

[DaymoR32]

On 7/26/2022 at 2:11 PM, Murray_Calavera said:

This might be the way you can keep your .6 motor

https://bulletraceengineering.com.au/shop/rb30sx/

Now it's 3.6 litre xD

thats just a destroked barra isnt it? 😆